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[ethelred]

Like I said its not that bad.

If you look at the numbers the only major companies that blow the PSP numbers out of the water is Sega and Bandai.

Really? I must be imagining how Square Enix has sold almost 5 million units on the DS versus 1.5 on the PSP. Or how MMV has sold more than 4 times as much on the DS, or how Hudson has sold almost 7 times as much, or how EA has sold almost twice as much, or how Atlus has sold almost 5 times as much, or how Banpresto has sold 4 times as much.

Yep. Just Bandai and Sega.

Sega is mostly based off of the love and berry game...

Hmmmmm. Well, the Sega games that have sold over 100,000 on the two systems:

Oshare Majo Love & Berry		Ryuta Kawashima Brain Training
Puyo Puyo				Initial D: Street Stage
Shiren the Wanderer
Mushi King: Greatest Champion
Sangokushi Taisen
Mushi King 2
Feel the Magic
Puyo Pop Fever
Bleach 2nd

Looks like it's not just Love & Berry. Though the fact that Love & Berry has sold more than all of Sega's PSP games combined is notable, I'll give you that.

By the way, CCB, I'm sure you're aware of what a median is, right? The way to tell if a number is being weighted upwards or downwards too much by a single outlying item? If Sega's numbers were being overinflated on the DS versus the PSP by just one game, their median sales would be comparable, right? So can you explain to me why Sega's DS median is twice the PSP's?

...while Bandai mostly from Taiamgcuhi (no clue how to spell it) and jump superstars.

Jump Superstars is a Nintendo game, not a Bandai game. You'll need to look elsewhere to explain why Bandai has sold more than twice as much software on the DS as the PSP.

Like I said its not like a game on the DS have a much better chance to succeed than a game on the PSP. (DS is better but not much better)

Uh huh.

 

[Xeke]

This tie-in ratio stuff is bullshit. The DS does not have a userbase of nearly 20 million. Most of the people that owned a phat have upgraded by now I think it's probably closer to 15 million than 20.

It may be even lower depending on how many people replaced their phats.

 

[LizardKing]

nice. but i would also like to see the psp by publisher like you did the ds by publisher if at all possible.

 

[Vinnk]

I appreciate all the work that must have gonbe into making this thread. Looking forward to the next update.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Guys, DS games don't make that much money The margins are pretty shitty. Please don't compare the UMD to it. It's just silly. Very, very few companies are getting 1 money hat off the DS let alone MANY money hats.

Now Wii vs PS3 is a different story. But then, if you're putting it out for the Wii, you might as well put it out on the PS2 also.

Given that there's one major publisher that has literally been saved from bankruptcy by the DS, and several others who either have shifted their main revenue streams to the DS or are shifting their main revenue streams to the DS, I'd say you're wrong.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I was bored and I thought another visual aid might be helpful in the whole "ds 3rd party games don't sell" argument. Sooo I took out all the first party games over 100k and made a list of the rest.

Also, keep in mind just how many games Nintendo published for the DS. It was 80! From one publisher. And the average is definitely weighted because they have 5 games over 3 million. And those 5 games account to almost half of their total software sales. That leaves 75 games to account for the other 25 million. And that becomes close to a 350,000 average. So next time someone wants to take out Love and Berry, and Tamagotchi, remember that.

Sooo here's a list of the DS and PSP 3rd party games over 100k.

DS 3rd party games over 100k in sales

1,398,449 Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker (Square Enix) (12/28/06) - through July 1/07
1,110,046 Tamagotchi no PuchiPuchi Omisecchi (Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop) (Bandai) (9/15/05) - through Dec 31/06
1,013,000 Final Fantasy III (Square Enix) (8/24/06) - rounded off through Apr 15/07 (MC)
978,611 Oshare Majo Love and Berry (DS Collection) (Sega) (11/22/06) - through July 1/07
780,711 Tamagotchi no Puchi Puchi Omisecchi Gohi-Kini (Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop 2) (Bandai) (7/27/06) - through July 1/07
593,852 Layton Kyouju no Fushigi na Machi (Professor Layton and the Curious Village) (Level 5) (2/15/07) - through July 8/07
570,662 Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Kounin: KanKen DS (Rocket) (9/28/06) - through July 1/07
539,420 Zaidan Houjin Nippon Kanji Nouryoku Kentei Kyoukai Koushiki Soft: 200 Mannin no KanKen: Tokoton Kanji Nou (IE) (11/9/06) - through Sept 9/07
531,867 Ryuusei no RockMan: Pegasus / Dragon / Leo (Mega Man Star Force: Pegasus / Dragon / Leo) (Capcom) (12/14/06) - through July 1/07
512,703 Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings (Square Enix) (4/26/07) - through Aug 5/07
471,947 Gyakuten Saiban 4 (Capcom) (4/12/07) - through Aug 5/07
363,030 Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates (Square Enix) (8/23/07) - through Sept 30/07
361,558 Itadaki Street DS (Square Enix) (6/21/07) - through Sept 9/07
357,654 Gyakuten Saiban:Yomigaeru Gyakuten (Phoenix Wright:Ace Attorney)(Capcom) (9/15/05)/(6/15/06) - thru Mar 4/07 (MC) / thru Sept 16/07
317,078 Dragon Ball Z: Bukuu Ressen (Dragon Ball Z: Supersonic Warriors 2) (Bandai) (12/1/05) - through Mar 11/07
308,786 Kotoba no Puzzle: Mojipittan DS (Namco) (3/15/07) - through July 1/07
293,970 Slime MoriMori: Dragon Quest 2 - Daisensha to Shippo Dan (Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime) (Square Enix) (12/1/05) - through Dec 31/06
281,083 Seiken Densetsu DS: Children of Mana (Children of Mana) (Square Enix) (3/2/06) - through Dec 31/06
276,964 Momotarou Dentetsu DS: Tokyo & Japan (Hudson) (4/26/07) - through July 22/07
276,186 Super Robot Taisen W (Banpresto) (3/1/07) - through July 1/07
250,580 Bokujou Monogatari: Kimi to Sodatsu Shima (Harvest Moon DS 2) (Marvelous) (2/1/07) - through July 1/07
244,401 Kageyama Method Dennou Hanpuku: Masu x Masu Hyaku Masu Keisan (Shogakukan) (12/7/06) - through July 1/07
233,483 SD Gundam G Generation: Cross Drive (Bandai) (8/9/07) - through Oct 7/07
226,674 Nounai Aesthe: IQ Suppli DS (Spike) (12/21/06) - through July 1/07
220,928 Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshuu 3 (Tomy) (4/21/05) - through Nov 12/06
217,986 Digimon Story (Digimon World DS) (Bandai) (6/15/06) - through Dec 31/06
209,119 Puyo Puyo! 15th Anniversary (Sega) (12/14/06) - through July 1/07
200,117 Heisei Kyouiku Iinkai DS (Namco) (12/21/06) - through July 1/07
196,073 Tales of the Tempest (Namco) (10/26/06) - through Mar 11/07
195,052 Fushigi no Dungeon: Fuurai no Shiren DS (Mysterious Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer 3) (Sega) (12/14/06) - through July 1/07
191,388 Kouchuu Ouja Mushi King: Greatest Champion e no Michi DS (Sega) (12/8/05) - through Dec 31/06
185,757 Subarashiki Kono Sekai: It's a Wonderful World (Square Enix) (7/27/07) - through Oct 7/07
168,705 World Soccer Winning Eleven DS (Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007) (Konami) (11/2/06) - through Mar 11/07
165,622 Digimon Story Sunburst / Moonlight (Digimon World: Dawn / Dusk) (Bandai) (3/29/07) - through July 1/07
164,484 Gyakuten Saiban 2 (Best Price!) (Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Justice for All) (Capcom) (10/26/06) - through July 1/07
163,037 Puzzle Series Vol. 3: Sudoku (Sudoku Gridmaster) (Hudson) (3/23/06) - through Dec 31/06
161,606 Taiko no Tatsujin DS: Touch de Dokodon! (Namco) (7/26/07) - through Oct 14/07
161,493 Sangokushi Taisen DS (Sega) (1/25/07) - through July 1/07
158,230 SimCity DS (EA) (2/22/07) - through July 1/07
144,631 Power Pro Kun Pocket 9 (Konami) (12/7/06) - through July 1/07
139,944 Chocobo to Mahou no Ehon (Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales) (Square Enix) (12/14/06) - through July 1/07
137,669 Naruto: Shinobi Retsuden (Takara Tomy) (12/14/06) - through July 1/07
136,678 Gyakuten Saiban 3 (Best Price!) (Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trials and Tribulations) (Capcom) (8/23/07) - through Oct 7/07
136,441 Dragon Ball Z: Harukanaru Goku Densetsu (Dragon Ball Z: Harukanaru Densetsu) (Bandai) (3/21/07) - through July 1/07
135,000 Naruto RPG2: Chidori vs Rasengan (Tomy) (7/14/05) - rounded off through July 2/06 (MC)
129,988 Minna no DS Seminar: Kanpeki Kanji Ryoku (TDK) (7/20/06) - through Dec 31/06
128,569 Kouchuu Ouja Mushi King: Greatest Champion e no Michi 2 (Sega) (7/27/06) - through Mar 11/07
125,445 Rune Factory: Shin Bokujou Monogatari (Rune Factory: Fantasy Harvest Moon) (Marvelous) (8/24/06) - through Dec 31/06
123,000 Bokujou Monogatari Colobocle Station (Harvest Moon DS) (Marvellous) (3/17/05) - rounded off through July 2/06 (MC)
122,788 Power Pro Kun Pocket 8 (Konami) (12/1/05) - through Dec 31/06
122,084 Tamagotchi no Appare! Niji-Venture (Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop 3) (Bandai) (3/29/07) - through July 1/07
121,149 Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshuu 4 (Naruto: Ninja Council 3) (Tomy) (4/27/06) - through Dec 31/06
119,584 Sekaiju no Meikyuu (Etrian Odyssey) (Atlus) (1/18/07) - through July 1/07
118,143 Kimi no Tame Nara Shineru (Feel the Magic: XY/XX) (Sega) (12/2/04) - through July 2/06 (MC)
117,849 Unou no Tatsujin: Soukai! Machigai Museum (QuickSpot) (Namco) (2/9/06) - through Mar 11/07
117,351 Kabushiki Baibai Trainer Kabutore (Konami) (12/14/06) - through July 1/07
113,496 Gotouchi Kentei DS (Spike) (11/22/06) - through July 1/07
112,811 Bokujou Monogatari: Colobocle Station for Girls (Harvest Moon DS Cute) (Marvelous) (12/8/05) - through Dec 31/06
108,248 Toeic Test DS Training (IE) (3/29/07) - through July 8/07
107,127 Crayon Shin-Chan DS: Arashi wo Yobu Nutte Crayoon Daisakusen! (Banpresto) (3/21/07) - through July 1/07
106,526 Rockman EXE 5 DS: Twin Leaders (Mega Man Battle Network 5: Double Team) (Capcom) (7/21/05) - through Dec 31/06
105,258 Ochaken no Heya DS (Dogz: Happy House) (MTO) (4/27/06) - through Dec 31/06
103,262 Unou no Tatsuhin! Soukai! Machigai Museum 2 (Namco) (3/1/07) - through July 1/07
103,000 Puyo Puyo Fever (Puyo Pop Fever) (Sega) (12/24/04) - rounded off through July 2/06 (MC)
102,249 Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Monsters Nightmare Troubadour (Yu-Gi-Oh!: Nightmare Troubadour) (Konami) (7/21/05) - through Nov 12/06
102,055 Bleach DS 2nd: Kokui Hirameku Requiem (Sega) (2/15/07) - through July 1/07
101,750 Kirarin * Revolution: Kira Kira Idol Audition (Konami) (8/10/06) - through Dec 31/06

PSP 3rd party games over 100k in sales

1,332,378 Monster Hunter Portable 2nd (Monster Hunter Freedom 2) (Capcom) (2/22/07) – through Oct 14/07
977,741 Monster Hunter Portable (+ PSP the Best) (Monster Hunter Freedom) (Capcom) (12/1/05) / (8/3/06) – through Dec 31/06 (MC) / July 1/07
705,311 Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII (Square Enix) (9/13/07) – through Oct 14/07
374,549 Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops (Konami) (12/21/06) - through Sept 2/07
319,228 Ridge Racers (+ PSP the Best) (Ridge Racer) (Namco) (12/12/04) / (11/17/05) - through Apr 10/05 (MC) / Dec 31/06 (274,682 + 44,546)
302,936 World Soccer Winning Eleven 9: Ubiquitous Edition (Konami) (9/15/05) / (4/27/06) – both through Dec 31/06 (MC)
298,799 Final Fantasy Tactics: Shishi Sensou (Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions) (Square Enix) (5/10/07) – through Sept 2/07
297,816 Kahashima Ryuuta Kyouju Kanshuu Nouryoku Trainer Portable (Sega) (10/20/05) – through Dec 31/06
286,187 Shin Sangoku Musou (Dynasty Warriors) (Koei) (12/16/04) - through Dec 25/05
278,702 SD Gundam G Generation Portable (Bandai) (8/3/06) - through Sept 2/07
271,946 Tales of Eternia (+ PSP the Best) (Namco) (3/3/05) / (12/1/05) - through Dec 25/05 / Dec 31/06 (MC) (193,458 + 78,488)
239,000 Tales of The World: Radiant Mythology (Namco) (12/21/06) – rounded off through Feb 18/07 (MC)
192,903 Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops Plus (+ Deluxe Pack) (Konami) (9/20/07) – through Oct 14/07 / Sept 30/07 (168,873 + 24,030)
191,512 Mahjong Kakutou Club (+ PSP the Best) (Konami) (12/12/04) / (3/2/06) - through ? (between Jan 1/06 – Feb 26/06) / Sept 2/07
168,515 Valkyrie Profile: Lenneth (Square Enix) (3/2/06) – through Dec 31/06
164,432 Kotoba no Puzzle Mojipittan Daijiten (+ PSP The Best) (Namco) (12/16/04) / (11/17/05) - through Dec 25/05 / Dec 31/06 (115,349 + 49,083)
164,284 Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu Portable (Konami) (4/1/06) - through Dec 31/06 (MC)
140,863 Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai (Bandai) (4/20/06) - through Dec 31/06
133,401 Gundam Battle Chronicle (Bandai) (10/4/07) – through Oct 21/07 (MC)
131,742 Kidou Senshi Gundam Seed: Rengou vs. Z.A.F.T. Portable (Bandai) (4/5/07) – through Sept 2/07
124,025 Final Fantasy Anniversary Edition (Square Enix) (4/19/07) – through Sept 2/07
123,227 Derby Stallion P (Enterbrain) (7/27/06) - through Sept 2/07
118,553 Metal Gear Acid (Konami) (12/16/04) - through Dec 25/05
118,229 World Soccer Winning Eleven 10: Ubiquitous Edition (Konami) (12/14/06) – through Mar 18/07
117,770 Tekken: Dark Resurrection (Namco) (7/6/06) – through Dec 31/06 (MC)
116,176 Ace Combat X: Skies of Deception (Namco) (10/26/06) - through Sept 2/07
114,861 Gundam Battle Royale (Bandai) (10/5/06) – through Dec 31/06
114,664 Geki Sengoku Musou (Samurai Warriors: State of War) (Koei) (12/8/05) - through Dec 31/06 (MC)
113,984 Tales of Destiny 2 (Namco) (2/15/07) – through July 1/07
111,300 Tales of Phantasia: Full Voice Edition (Namco) (9/7/06) – through Dec 31/06 (MC)
110,823 Dragon Quest & Final Fantasy in Itadaki Street Portable (Square Enix) (5/25/06) - through Dec 31/06
108,687 Initial D: Street Stage (Sega) (2/23/06) - through Dec 31/06 (MC)
107,259 Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (Capcom) (7/26/07) – through Oct 7/07
103,834 Eiyuu Densetsu Gagharv Trilogy: Shiroki Majo (The Legend of Heroes II: Prophecy of the Moonlight Witch) (Bandai) (12/16/04)

 

[Throwaway123456789]

Looking at the last 8 weeks:
PSP: 718,998
DS: 632,168

PSP: +86,830


LTD up to that point:
PSP: 5,879,599
DS: 19,100,856

DS: +13,221,257

Spoiler

If you look at the last 10 weeks, DS is ahead of PSP by 108K. Also, DS has been ahead of PSP for the last 3 weeks.

Hey now! If the PSP continues to sell 86,830 more than the DS every 8 weeks, it'll overtake it in 1210 weeks!

 

[Galactic Fork]

Hey now! If the PSP continues to sell 86,830 more than the DS every 8 weeks, it'll overtake it in 1210 weeks!

Sooo, it just needs to launch a new version every few weeks?

 

[apujanata]

This tie-in ratio stuff is bullshit. The DS does not have a userbase of nearly 20 million. Most of the people that owned a phat have upgraded by now I think it's probably closer to 15 million than 20.

It may be even lower depending on how many people replaced their phats.

Really ? Ever heard of giving to your family / relatives / friend ?
I have 3 DS, 1 DSL + 2 DSF (at). When I bought the second DS (Blue), I gave the first DS (Silver) to my eldest son. When I bought the DSL, Blue DS is given to my eldest son, and Silver DS is given to my second son (still 2 years old at that time).

I am planning to buy another DSL (Crimson/Black), and when it happen, the one free DS will be given either to my wife, or to my third son.

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I think your statement is wrong. Even if you wanted to discount the #, maybe it is 18 or 19 million, instead of just 15 million.

The most important part : the lower the user base is, the higher the tie-in ratio. Which mean, based on your statement, DS tie-in ratio should be higher than 3.89 they have right now, which leave's PSP tie-in ratio (2.31) in the dust.

Usually, for a lower userbase console, it is easier to achive higher tie-in ratio.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Guys, DS games don't make that much money The margins are pretty shitty. Please don't compare the UMD to it. It's just silly. Very, very few companies are getting 1 money hat off the DS let alone MANY money hats.

Really? I could of swore that it was cheaper to make games on DS than PSP. As such i would of thought the profit margins would be bigger on DS.

Can anyone clarify this who actually knows more about it?

 

[apujanata]

Really? I could of swore that it was cheaper to make games on DS than PSP. As such i would of thought the profit margins would be bigger on DS.

Can anyone clarify this who actually knows more about it?

Just ignore him. He didn't know what he is talking about.
http://www.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/747/p/title/title/R.I.P._PSP.html

The PSP?s power also had a price for developers who would now have to spend upwards of ten times the amount of money to develop a PSP game as opposed to a GBA game. In 2005 a survey by The Japanese Computer Entertainment Suppliers Association reported that the average development costs for a PSP game was the same as a GCN game and just short of a PS2 game.

http://psp.ign.com/articles/775/775686p2.html

:: Where does PSP development fit on a production cost level compared to console game development and also Nintendo DS development. Will PSP budgets and production challenges rise as development moves away from comparable platforms and onto next-gen systems?

I have never made a DS game, so I cannot really do a head-to-head comparison of DS cost versus PSP cost. I think in general a PSP game cost us about 1/2 to 2/3 what a PS2 game did and an order of magnitude less than a PS3 game. Just looking at the first 3 cycles we spent on the PSP, costs went up each time as the production value the consumer expected continued to rise and rise and I think that is the biggest area of inflation for PSP games. I hope everyone developing in the PSP market now has their tech and tool chains fairly mature so that should just be more of an incremental, specific to the game you are making right now cost and will not fluctuate up or down wildly.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/09/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm

I couldn't find the article that mentioned that DS game development cost is HALF of PSP game development cost.

 

[Dalthien]

Charts updated.

By the way, I forgot to mention it before, but the publisher breakdown for the PSP has been up for a good month or so now. (Post #6)


- DS surpasses 80 million in software sales

- Capcom becomes the top publisher on the PSP even though they only have a third of the number of titles as Sony (although Sony will reclaim the top spot next week with Hot Shots Golf 2 - and if Namco's & Bandai's sales are combined, then they are the top publisher by a fair margin)

- it's just kind of odd to see Square Enix not even in the Top 5 publishers for a Sony platform (although they do have the highest average sales per game)

 

[JeremyR]

Thanks. Seeing the average per title is very interesting.

I noticed you listed "Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki SC" twice (one should probably be "Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki FC", FC and SC for First Chapter and Second Chapter.

 

[thestopsign]

Charts updated.

By the way, I forgot to mention it before, but the publisher breakdown for the PSP has been up for a good month or so now. (Post #6)


- DS surpasses 80 million in software sales

- Capcom becomes the top publisher on the PSP even though they only have a third of the number of titles as Sony (although Sony will reclaim the top spot next week with Hot Shots Golf 2 - and if Namco's & Bandai's sales are combined, then they are the top publisher by a fair margin)

- it's just kind of odd to see Square Enix not even in the Top 5 publishers for a Sony platform (although they do have the highest average sales per game)

Thanks for keeping this updated.

I'm eagerly awaiting the Famitsu Top 100 for the year to see how some games such as Megaman Starforce 1, Kirby, Yoshi's Island, Zelda: Phantom Hourglass, and Love and Berry are doing.

Also, the DS tie-ratio should go up dramatically in the next year or two as the hardware slows down too 70k a week or lower on average, just sayin'.

 

[apujanata]

Charts updated.

By the way, I forgot to mention it before, but the publisher breakdown for the PSP has been up for a good month or so now. (Post #6)


- DS surpasses 80 million in software sales

- Capcom becomes the top publisher on the PSP even though they only have a third of the number of titles as Sony (although Sony will reclaim the top spot next week with Hot Shots Golf 2 - and if Namco's & Bandai's sales are combined, then they are the top publisher by a fair margin)

- it's just kind of odd to see Square Enix not even in the Top 5 publishers for a Sony platform (although they do have the highest average sales per game)

80 Million down, 100 Million to go.

Dalthien, What is the S/W # for PS2, GBA ? Maybe we should compare them to DS'.

SE main problem is their offering is still limited to RPG genre (mostly), while other publisher's have more diverse offering (adventure, action etc).
It doesn't help that SE is also focused on DS, which made less # of offering for PSP.

 

[Fuzzy]

80 Million down, 100 Million to go.

Dalthien, What is the S/W # for PS2, GBA ? Maybe we should compare them to DS'.

The GBA SW Shipments through 9/30/07 was only 72.59 million in Japan so the DS has far surpassed that.

 

[sphinx]

994,703 Hoshi no Kirby: Sanjou! Dorocche Dan (Kirby Squeak Squad) (Nintendo) (11/2/06) - through July 1/07
978,611 Oshare Majo Love and Berry (DS Collection) (Sega) (11/22/06) - through July 1/07
862,353 Shaberu! DS Oryouri Navi (Nintendo) (7/20/06) - through Nov 25/07
810,398 Yoshi's Island DS (Nintendo) (3/8/07) - through July 22/07
789,091 Zelda no Densetsu: Mugen no Sunadokei (The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass) (Nintendo) (6/23/07) - through Sept 23/07
780,711 Tamagotchi no Puchi Puchi Omisecchi Gohi-Kini (Tamagotchi Connection: Corner Shop 2) (Bandai) (7/27/06) - through July 1/07
767,212 Pokemon Fushigi no Dungeon: Ao no Kyuujotai (Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team) (Nintendo) (11/17/05) - through Mar 11/07
743,864 Jump! Ultimate Stars (Nintendo) (11/23/06) - through July 1/07
731,857 Dragon Quest IV: Michibikareshi Monotachi (Square Enix) (11/22/07) - through Dec 2/07 (MC)

I think the bolded will have passed the million mark when the DS successor launches in Japan.

I thought it was common knowledge that the tamagotchi sequel bombed badly. It's suprising to realize that not only it didn't bomb but it is one of the Top 30 best selling games across all current-gen systems in Japan O_O....

 

[HK-47]

I think the bolded will have passed the million mark when the DS successor launches in Japan.

I thought it was common knowledge that the tamagotchi sequel bombed badly. It's suprising to realize that not only it didn't bomb but it is one of the Top 30 best selling games across all current-gen systems in Japan O_O....

I think Love & Berry and Kirby have anyways...they are so close its well within statistical possibility that they already have

 

[Dalthien]

I noticed you listed "Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki SC" twice (one should probably be "Eiyuu Densetsu: Sora no Kiseki FC", FC and SC for First Chapter and Second Chapter.

Thanks. Those are some good eyes that you have! I'm not sure how that happened. We are usually really good about double-checking everything. I know that we had them both correctly listed a few weeks ago - it must have got messed up during the last update for these titles. We'll be sure to have it fixed in next week's update.

The GBA SW Shipments through 9/30/07 was only 72.59 million in Japan so the DS has far surpassed that.

That is pretty amazing when you stop to think about it.

 

[apujanata]

Thanks. Those are some good eyes that you have! I'm not sure how that happened. We are usually really good about double-checking everything. I know that we had them both correctly listed a few weeks ago - it must have got messed up during the last update for these titles. We'll be sure to have it fixed in next week's update.


That is pretty amazing when you stop to think about it.

Since GBA H/W combined is 17.8 Million, while NDS H/W combined is 20.1 Million, the S/W # by it self is not surprising. What is suprising is the speed. It took NDS < 3years (Dec 04 - Nov 07) to achieve what GBA achieve in 4.5 years (March 01 to Dec 05)

PS2 H/W need 7.5 years to achieve what NDS did in < 3 years. No one have PS/2 S/W # ?

thank for the GBA S/W #, Fuzzy.

 

[Fuzzy]

Since GBA H/W combined is 17.8 Million, while NDS H/W combined is 20.1 Million, the S/W # by it self is not surprising. What is suprising is the speed. It took NDS < 3years (Dec 04 - Nov 07) to achieve what GBA achieve in 4.5 years (March 01 to Dec 05)

PS2 H/W need 7.5 years to achieve what NDS did in < 3 years. No one have PS/2 S/W # ?

thank for the GBA S/W #, Fuzzy.

The PS2 SW Production Shipments through 3/31/07 for Japan* was 228 million but that doesn't help us.


*Asia

 

[StranGER]

such a trip thinking back how this forum was when the psp was on it's way out and felt that the ds would be the end of nintendo's handheld market.

 

[draggoon01]

Just ignore him. He didn't know what he is talking about.
http://www.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/747/p/title/title/R.I.P._PSP.html



http://psp.ign.com/articles/775/775686p2.html


http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/09/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm

I couldn't find the article that mentioned that DS game development cost is HALF of PSP game development cost.

know anything about media costs? game card vs umd?



http://www.*************/news/6133848.html

The average price of the 13 Xbox games included in the survey was 202 million yen ($1.8 million), with PlayStation 2 and GameCube development costs trailing behind at 96 million yen ($877,634) and 90 million yen ($822,857), respectively. Information on development costs for that study was voluntarily supplied by publishers.

So if ds costs half of psp we could guess that the cost difference is $400,000-$500,000

Depending on how much cheaper umd discs are than ds game cards, then media savings could cancel out development savings.

Anyone know media costs?

 

[donny2112]

The GBA SW Shipments through 9/30/07 was only 72.59 million in Japan so the DS has far surpassed that.

The PS2 SW Production Shipments through 3/31/07 for Japan* was 228 million but that doesn't help us.


*Asia

Note: We have much more complete DS software data than PS2/GBA, because we have Top 500s for 2005/6 and only Top 100s for 2000-2004.

From my numbers, I have

PS2 - 153.5 million
NDS - 76.0 million
GBA - 51.5 million

If the same ratio of tracked to actual was applied to GBA and PS2, than the PS2 software would be ~216 million in Japan. From that, I'd say 200 million software for the PS2 would be a safe bet.

So if ds costs half of psp we could guess that the cost difference is $400,000-$500,000

Depending on how much cheaper umd discs are than ds game cards, then media savings could cancel out development savings.

Anyone know media costs?

I believe that to be unlikely, but I don't have any hard data for support.

 

[apujanata]

http://www.*************/news/6133848.html



So if ds costs half of psp we could guess that the cost difference is $400,000-$500,000

Depending on how much cheaper umd discs are than ds game cards, then media savings could cancel out development savings.

Anyone know media costs?

Since DS price is usually $20 - $25, and assuming the following :
- 20% - 30% margin for retailer
- 10% - 20% distribution cost
- 10% - 25% licensing cost (paid to console manufacturer)
- 10% - 20%

That means, the cost of the game (development + media) is maximum 50% of retail price, or $ 12.5, max. If we assume that media cost is 30% (max) of that $12.5, then media cost for DS is $4 (rounded up from 3.75). If UMD is much cheaper, we can assume that it is $2 (only 50% of DS' media).
With $2 difference, the $400K - 500K difference can only be overcame with minimum sales of 200K - 250K. Lots of S/W does not even reach 100K WW sales, so most game does not enjoy better profit on PSP that was caused by media.

If you don't agree with my assumption, you can change the percentage yourself and post it here, so people can comment on it.

 

[draggoon01]

Since DS price is usually $20 - $25, and assuming the following :
- 20% - 30% margin for retailer
- 10% - 20% distribution cost
- 10% - 25% licensing cost (paid to console manufacturer)
- 10% - 20%

That means, the cost of the game (development + media) is maximum 50% of retail price, or $ 12.5, max. If we assume that media cost is 30% (max) of that $12.5, then media cost for DS is $4 (rounded up from 3.75). If UMD is much cheaper, we can assume that it is $2 (only 50% of DS' media).
With $2 difference, the $400K - 500K difference can only be overcame with minimum sales of 200K - 250K. Lots of S/W does not even reach 100K WW sales, so most game does not enjoy better profit on PSP that was caused by media.

If you don't agree with my assumption, you can change the percentage yourself and post it here, so people can comment on it.

i believe a wide range of possibilities are all reasonable.

a umd is basically a mini-dvd with a cheap plastic case. would this cost $2 to make? sure maybe limited production makes it cost so much. or maybe the technology is so cheap that it costs less than $1

same for ds game card. sure it could be $4 but i wouldn't be surprised if it was $1-$2 range either.


point is we need some sort of real numbers since our estimates can vary so widely. we have a real sense of development costs but media costs are up in the air unless someone has some info.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

PS2 H/W need 7.5 years to achieve what NDS did in < 3 years. No one have PS/2 S/W # ?

The PS2 SW Production Shipments through 3/31/07 for Japan* was 228 million but that doesn't help us.


*Asia

Since I don't have anything past Top 100 for 2000-2004 this is far from as complete as it could be, but the amassed PS2 software data I have from Famitsu through the week of 2007-11-19 is 156.3 million from 1513 SKUs.

Note: We have much more complete DS software data than PS2/GBA, because we have Top 500s for 2005/6 and only Top 100s for 2000-2004.

From my numbers, I have

PS2 - 153.5 million

Ah, our results are similar, but not identical. Interesting. Could be either due to me including some data you didn't, or the occasional doubled entry that's slipped through.

 

[donny2112]

Since I don't have anything past Top 100 for 2000-2004 this is far from as complete as it could be, but the amassed PS2 software data I have from Famitsu through the week of 2007-11-19 is 156.3 million from 1513 SKUs.

Ah, our results are similar, but not identical. Interesting. Could be either due to me including some data you didn't, or the occasional doubled entry that's slipped through.

I have 1561 PS2 SKUs. :lol I don't know what the difference would be. Maybe I didn't catch all the GBA games that got a PS2 hardware for one entry?

Edit: I just found at least one. I had a PS2 entry for a GBA Famicom Mini game. I'll try checking for more.

1 - GBA game labeled as PS2 for one week
1 - PS2 game labeled as GCN for one week
5 - alternate translations of PS2 game names

A lot of the extra games I have are probably from the 2002 Top 500 hodgepodge table that I'm using, and you're not. Also, these changes I put in lowers my PS2 software total. :lol

# PS2 SKUs - 1556
PS2 SW - 152.4 million
GBA SW - 50.3 million

Could be either due to me including some data you didn't,

Is there a particular data set that you think you might have used that I would have skipped or not known about?

 

[Dalthien]

Charts updated!

The DS now has 18 million-sellers that we have data for.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Charts updated!

The DS now has 18 million-sellers that we have data for.

Holy Crap.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This reply is a few weeks late now, but hey.

Is there a particular data set that you think you might have used that I would have skipped or not known about?

Not specifically, just thinking that with so much of it around it'd be easy for something to slip through. For reference, though, I keep a pretty decent list of the sources I've used here.

 

[speedpop]

So the first Layton did 725K. Not bad at all.

 

[yankeeforever2]

Charts updated!

The DS now has 18 million-sellers that we have data for.

So I guess we will have the most complete charts after the top 100 comes out?

 

[HK-47]

So the first Layton did 725K. Not bad at all.

More likely near 750k now I believe if that number isnt taking last week into account

 

[ForzaItalia]

Sorry if it's already been asked but what are the worldwide sales totals for DS and PSP hardware?

 

[apujanata]

Sorry if it's already been asked but what are the worldwide sales totals for DS and PSP hardware?

Since there is no regular data from Europe, it is quite hard to estimate. The lates figure I have (up to around Dec 07) :

NDS : 56 Million
PSP : 27 Million

 

[ForzaItalia]

I said wow...

Thanks.

 

[donny2112]

Not specifically, just thinking that with so much of it around it'd be easy for something to slip through. For reference, though, I keep a pretty decent list of the sources I've used here.

I use all those sources by name except for the Nov-06 DS list. However, my yearly Top 100 lists are from YSO instead of nifty. It seemed that nifty was adding together some games when he created his Top 100 instead of using Famitsu's raw Top 100. I first really noticed this in the 1999 Top 100 where nifty has

65 Sonic Adventure DC 262,093 438,707

and YSO has

80 Sonic Adventure DC 208,751 385,365.

There was a BEST re-release of Sonic Adventure in 1999 that I last had at 43,579 (19990718). I figured that nifty had probably added the yearly total for the BEST release to the base release, which would be why his total was higher. After that, I stayed with YSO for the annual Top 100s.

 

[Stop It]

SO, DS has not shifted 82,940,043 software units? holy shit on a stick that's impressive, as it has already supassed PS2 in Japan in terms of Hardware sold, how long until has it got to go software wise?

So the first Layton did 725K. Not bad at all.

Fantastic for a NewIP, and obviously the market wants more, as the sequel is doing well too, good to see (And hopefully WW sales will supass 1mil for the original).

 

[C- Warrior]

Ah, Singapore has good taste I see.

Too bad nobody buys games there, so it's not like it helps.

Wait, I'm getting Singapore and the Phillipines mixed up again aren't I? When I went to Singapore, all I know is that have harsh littering laws.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

There was a BEST re-release of Sonic Adventure in 1999 that I last had at 43,579 (19990718). I figured that nifty had probably added the yearly total for the BEST release to the base release, which would be why his total was higher. After that, I stayed with YSO for the annual Top 100s.

Ahh, I 'll have to take a closer look at that.

SO, DS has not shifted 82,940,043 software units? holy shit on a stick that's impressive, as it has already supassed PS2 in Japan in terms of Hardware sold, how long until has it got to go software wise?

Well, we don't know all of PS2's software sales, but neither do we know all of DS's. Last time I was comparing their totals, though, I noted that DS at 3 years seemed to be about where PS2 was at 4 years.

 

[thestopsign]

Ahh, I 'll have to take a closer look at that.

Well, we don't know all of PS2's software sales, but neither do we know all of DS's. Last time I was comparing their totals, though, I noted that DS at 3 years seemed to be about where PS2 was at 4 years.

Well, we know a higher percentage of DS software because of the Top 500's.

 

[Dalthien]

Just finished a whole bunch of updates, including all the year-end data, plus a bunch of monthly charts, etc.

Kirby Squeak Squad shoots past a million, giving the DS a cool 20 million sellers now.

And the DS hits a tie ratio of 4 for the first time on these charts. And its almost double that of the PSP, as the PSP tie ratio has been falling of late, even with all of the year-end updates.

And check out which publisher now has the highest average sales per title on the DS! Level 5 has pulled ahead of Nintendo in that statistic, although doing it with 2 games isn't quite the same as doing it with 82 games.

 

[Dalthien]

Just finished the latest chart updates, including the full-year Top 100 data.

It's interesting to note that Konami and Namco both now have greater total sales on the DS instead of the PSP. Both publishers had greater total PSP sales all the way up until just recently.

These are the two main publishers who have really focused their strongest efforts on the PSP (Metal Gear Solid Acid & Portable Ops, Winning Eleven, Ridge Racer, numerous Tales titles, Ace Combat X, Tekken, etc.), so it's interesting to see that their DS sales have now surpassed their PSP sales.

That really only leaves Capcom and Koei as major publishers who have greater PSP sales than DS sales. And Capcom's DS total is surprisingly close to their PSP total (2.5M vs. 2.9M) considering that 2.5 million units of their PSP sales comes from the two Monster Hunter titles.

 

[jj984jj]

Just finished the latest chart updates, including the full-year Top 100 data.

It's interesting to note that Konami and Namco both now have greater total sales on the DS instead of the PSP. Both publishers had greater total PSP sales all the way up until just recently.

These are the two main publishers who have really focused their strongest efforts on the PSP (Metal Gear Solid Acid & Portable Ops, Winning Eleven, Ridge Racer, numerous Tales titles, Ace Combat X, Tekken, etc.), so it's interesting to see that their DS sales have now surpassed their PSP sales.

That really only leaves Capcom and Koei as major publishers who have greater PSP sales than DS sales. And Capcom's DS total is surprisingly close to their PSP total (2.5M vs. 2.9M) considering that 2.5 million units of their PSP sales comes from the two Monster Hunter titles.

Impossible, aside from Square-Enix 3rd parties aren't successful on the DS.

 

[ethelred]

Impossible, aside from Square-Enix 3rd parties aren't successful on the DS.

Well, on Konami's side, it's mostly just a matter of volume. They still haven't had any DS games that have sold nearly as well as their top-selling PSP games. Namco has (Mojipittan and Taiko have sold great). And pretty much all of Konami's stuff aside from the Power Pro Pocket series has sold really poorly.

 

[JeremyR]

Just finished the latest chart updates, including the full-year Top 100 data.

It's interesting to note that Konami and Namco both now have greater total sales on the DS instead of the PSP. Both publishers had greater total PSP sales all the way up until just recently.

These are the two main publishers who have really focused their strongest efforts on the PSP (Metal Gear Solid Acid & Portable Ops, Winning Eleven, Ridge Racer, numerous Tales titles, Ace Combat X, Tekken, etc.), so it's interesting to see that their DS sales have now surpassed their PSP sales.

Yeah, but looking at your average chart, Konami has published 40 DS titles and only 26 PSP. Granted the PSP has seen Metal Gear, but the DS has gotten almost all the Castlevania love.

Namco too has a slight edge in DS titles published, 21 to 19. I don't recognize most of their DS franchises though. They've definitely put their more prominent ones on the PSP, although they've pretty much split the Tales series (since a lot of the PSP ones are simply ports).

It's actually interesting how little overlap, in terms of the same basic game, there is between the two systems. I mean, in the West, a lot of games come out on both the PSP and DS. But really, on those lists, other than sports games, the only one that seemed to be mostly the same is Dungeon Explorer from Hudson. And sales on either platform wasn't stellar...

 

[Neo C.]

Well, on Konami's side, it's mostly just a matter of volume. They still haven't had any DS games that have sold nearly as well as their top-selling PSP games. Namco has (Mojipittan and Taiko have sold great). And pretty much all of Konami's stuff aside from the Power Pro Pocket series has sold really poorly.

Not poorly enough to give up the support, it seems.

Konami needs to gear up their quality output.

 

[FoxSpirit]

63,224 Luminous Arc (Marvelous) (2/8/07) - through July 1/07

Hmmm, how good is that?

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Impossible, aside from Square-Enix 3rd parties aren't successful on the DS.

Well, PSP sells no software so selling a little more on DS after 3 years means they aren't selling software there either, right?