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[jimbo]

The PS3 has never been $599 in Japan and it's been selling worse in Japan than in the US where it costs more. Why?

There's a number of reasons.


1. The US PS3 release schedule has been stronger(Resistance is actually loved over here and considered a AAA title).
2. There's already an expensive console selling quite well...which was setting the stage for higher prices for a year prior to the PS3 being released(see EUrope also)
3. US is made up of more Core gamers
4. Chad W.

 

[legend166]

So now that Minna no Golf has been pushed aside by the market with relatively little excitement, is there anything left for the PS3 in 07? I really can think of a single thing.

Sony can't be expecting all their published games like LBP, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, etc to sell, can they?

 

[jimbo]

Did the GCN price reduction change anything?

The GC never went from expensive to affordable to cheap. It went from cheap to cheaper.

A console that doesn't sell when it's cheap, with hardly any third party support, is likely not going to sell when it's cheaper, with the same or worse third party suppport.

But you can't apply the same logic to a console that's just plain expensive AND actually has good third party support.

 

[LanceStern]

So now that Minna no Golf has been pushed aside by the market with relatively little excitement, is there anything left for the PS3 in 07? I really can think of a single thing.

Sony can't be expecting all their published games like LBP, Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, etc to sell, can they?

I think Minna can have some decent legs, as the other titles in the series have proven.

 

[Xeke]

The GC never went from expensive to affordable to cheap. It went from cheap to cheaper.

A console that doesn't sell when it's cheap, with hardly any third party support, is likely not going to sell when it's cheaper, with the same or worse third party suppport.

But you can't apply the same logic to a console that's just plain expensive AND actually has good third party support.

Where is this good third party support? Most of the games you are seeing now were announced before the abysmal PS3 sales became a reality.

I guess the expectations are really down after the PS2's third party support.

 

[jimbo]

Where is this good third party support? Most of the games you are seeing now were announced before the abysmal PS3 sales became a reality.

I guess the expectations are really down after the PS2's third party support.

So does that mean they don't exist?

 

[Haunted]

So now that Minna no Golf has been pushed aside by the market with relatively little excitement, is there anything left for the PS3 in 07? I really can think of a single thing.

There's no game that could be big in Japan coming out until 08? Are you ****ing kidding me? That can't be right. Looked at the IGN release list - what about GT5: Prologue?

but man, what a barren list - talk about sent to die etc.

 

[Innotech]

So does that mean they don't exist?

if youre tlaking about japan the answer is, no, they dont. At least not in appreciable quantity.
in the Us/europe perhaps a bit. But sales sure as hell dont indicate that Ps3 games are being released. they hardly chart.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

It's a sketchy reason, but the price is a major issue for the PS3. Had it been $200, would it have fared immensely better to the changing generation of gamers ushered in by the DS and Wii? I think it could have.

But wasn't the PS2 launch price in Japan relatively high? It was like $320 or something like that, and it still sold very well. Sure, the 20 gig PS3 debuted at around $80 higher than that, but is that $80 really the primary difference between selling out every week and mediocre weekly sales? Considering the PS2's software lineup in its first year in Japan wasn't really that compelling IMO.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

There's no game that could be big in Japan coming out until 08? Are you ****ing kidding me? That can't be right. Looked at the IGN release list - what about GT5: Prologue?

but man, what a barren list - talk about sent to die etc.

Yeah, It is like Sony just gave up Japan to Nintendo.

 

[Innotech]

I love how people say "if it was cheaper" Well yeah know why the wii is cheaper? Because it doesnt have all that extraneous shit added into it to drive up costs. If Sony sold Ps3 at 2-300$ theyd be hemmorhaging money from every orifice from hardware costs. Its like saying that a Lotus Elise would outsell a Miata if only it costed 25k instead of 50k. No shit.

 

[jimbo]

if youre tlaking about japan the answer is, no, they dont. At least not in appreciable quantity.
in the Us/europe perhaps a bit. But sales sure as hell dont indicate that Ps3 games are being released. they hardly chart.

Oh so we're back to that whole sales = games thing. Right, I must of missed the threads about MGS, GTA, RE, FF, DMC, etc, etc getting cancelled on the PS3.

 

[Xeke]

So does that mean they don't exist?

It means their existence is based on pre-launch expectations and there is no reason to believe that even the current rate of support will continue. Why would it?

Oh so we're back to that whole sales = games thing. Right, I must of missed the threads about MGS, GTA, RE, FF, DMC, etc, etc getting cancelled on the PS3.

And all of those were announced before the PS3 started tracking lower than the Saturn. They wont cause a huge influx and none of them save FF will push as many PS3's in Japan as you saw this week.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I love how people say "if it was cheaper" Well yeah know why the wii is cheaper? Because it doesnt have all that extraneous shit added into it to drive up costs. If Sony sold Ps3 at 2-300$ theyd be hemmorhaging money from every orifice from hardware costs. Its like saying that a Lotus Elise would outsell a Miata if only it costed 25k instead of 50k. No shit.

Yeah, if they designed the console from the outset to be $300, then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place because that was the winning forumula they used to win the previous two generations.

If the PS3 launched at $300, you bet your ass I would be the first one to buy it. The problem is that it launched at $600 and they designed the console from the outset to be expensive because it used the Blu Ray Drive and CELL technology.

 

[jimbo]

It means their existence is based on pre-launch expectations and there is no reason to believe that even the current rate of support will continue. Why would it?



And all of those were announced before the PS3 started tracking lower than the Saturn. They wont cause a huge influx and none of them save FF will push as many PS3's in Japan as you saw this week.

Because they have common sense and realize that when prices drop more people will buy the PS3?

Edit: And I don't expect any of those to really do that much more than what we saw this week IF THE PS3 STAYS AT THE SAME PRICE. Which we all know it won't.

 

[Xeke]

Because they have common sense and realize that when prices drop more people will buy the PS3?

None of the consoles tracking similarly to the PS3 ever came back like you are suggesting. I believe the saturn launched at $399, which like the PS3, was above mass market pricing. It was a sales disaster.

Publishers don't give a damn about Sony's BS "10 year plan" they want to make money now, not later. The PS3 will never catch the Wii so what incentive is there to not just make their games on the Wii with lower development costs and a booming user base.

The PSP price drop is sure helping it compete with the DS these days...

 

[C.T.]

Because they have common sense and realize that when prices drop more people will buy the PS3?

Edit: And I don't expect any of those to really do that much more than what we saw this week IF THE PS3 STAYS AT THE SAME PRICE. Which we all know it won't.

A price drop means nothing without good third party support.

 

[frankthurk]

The PS3 will never catch the Wii so what incentive is there to not just make their games on the Wii with lower development costs and a booming user base.

The Wii is limited in the types of games that will work well on it. Some games you just don't want to put on the Wii.

 

[ksamedi]

The Wii is limited in the types of games that will work well on it. Some games you just don't want to put on the Wii.

Which ones? Maybe fighting games like Tekken, but im pretty sure they could work it out.

 

[jimbo]

None of the consoles tracking similarly to the PS3 ever came back like you are suggesting. I believe the saturn launched at $399, which like the PS3, was above mass market pricing. It was a sales disaster.

Publishers don't give a damn about Sony's BS "10 year plan" they want to make money now, not later. The PS3 will never catch the Wii so what incentive is there to not just make their games on the Wii with lower development costs and a booming user base.

The PSP price drop is sure helping it compete with the DS these days...

Because your Nintendo goggles refuses to let you see the fact that with most developers taking a multiplatform stance, the PS3/360/PC offers a MUCH larger user base than the Wii anyway, despite how well the Wii is selling. And always will provide a much larger user base than the Wii.

As long as there is middleware this generation, and as long as developers continue to be THIRD PARTY developers and as long as THIRD PARTY developers make MULTIPLATFORM games, then the idea of developing what basically amounts to EXCLUSIVES for the Wii won't happen.

 

[Innotech]

Which ones? Maybe fighting games like Tekken, but im pretty sure they could work it out.

its kind of ironic that so many fighting action games have been announced on Wii despite it being "bad for fighting games"

 

[PantherLotus]

Are we seriously arguing with the same kid that still thinks that the 360 will hit a million units in japan? Or has he retracted that yet? You can't take jimbo seriously. He's a flaming anti-Nintendo nutcase that will spin anything he can just to get a kick out of it.

And first thing he does after getting unbanned? Shootin' right for the MC sales thread, where he can proven wrong again, again, and again. It's ****ing pathetic.

like ps3 sales

 

[Xeke]

Because your Nintendo goggles refuses to let you see the fact that with most developers taking a multiplatform stance, the PS3/360/PC offers a MUCH larger user base than the Wii anyway, despite how well the Wii is selling. And always will provide a much larger user base than the Wii.

As long as there is middleware this generation, and as long as developers continue to be THIRD PARTY developers and as long as THIRD PARTY developers make MULTIPLATFORM games, then the idea of developing what basically amounts to EXCLUSIVES for the Wii won't happen.

So people will buy the 360 and PC versions, how does that really help the PS3? Why would I get my multi-platform game on the PS3 when I can get a 360 for cheaper?

Not to mention that the PC/360/PS3 combo will still get outsold by the Wii in Japan.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

Are we seriously arguing with the same kid that still thinks that the 360 will hit a million units in japan? Or has he retracted that yet? You can't take jimbo seriously. He's a flaming anti-Nintendo nutcase that will spin anything he can just to get a kick out of it.

And first thing he does after getting unbanned? Shootin' right for the MC sales thread, where he can proven wrong again, again, and again. It's ****ing pathetic.

like ps3 sales

Yeah, Japan is a lost cause. He should at least talk about Europe or something where Sony actually has a chance.

 

[jimbo]

Are we seriously arguing with the same kid that still thinks that the 360 will hit a million units in japan? Or has he retracted that yet? You can't take jimbo seriously. He's a flaming anti-Nintendo nutcase that will spin anything he can just to get a kick out of it.

And first thing he does after getting unbanned? Shootin' right for the MC sales thread, where he can proven wrong again, again, and again. It's ****ing pathetic.

I forsee a lot of crow eating in your future.

And yes for the record : I still predict the 360 will cross 1 mil in Japan.

PS. You were one of the ones that said the 360 wouldn't cross the Xbox's LTD in Japan weren't you? Yeah that crow shall be your Christmas present from I to you.

 

[Haunted]

So people will buy the 360 and PC versions, how does that really help the PS3? Why would I get my multi-platform game on the PS3 when I can get a 360 for cheaper?

Not to mention that the PC/360/PS3 combo will still get outsold by the Wii in Japan.

Don't forget that we've seen a PS3 version 'missing' for a number of upcoming titles already.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I forsee a lot of crow eating in your future.

And yes for the record : I still predict the 360 will cross 1 mil in Japan.

Wow, you are INSANE.

There is nothing that made the XBOX 360 sell well, JRPG's, Loli Sims, and other games that appeal to the market.

 

[Xeke]

Yeah that crow shall be your Christmas present from I to you.

You'll be banned again by christmas. That'll be GAF's gift to you. Maybe you can clear your head and rejoin reality.

 

[Innotech]

Yeah, Japan is a lost cause. He should at least talk about Europe or something where Sony actually has a chance.

I heard Ps3 really knocks em dead in New Zealand!

 

[jimbo]

So people will buy the 360 and PC versions, how does that really help the PS3? Why would I get my multi-platform game on the PS3 when I can get a 360 for cheaper?

Not to mention that the PC/360/PS3 combo will still get outsold by the Wii in Japan.

People will buy a combination of those. It will help the PS3 in that it will continue to get third party support by default just being part of a group of next generation consoles that can run next-gen multiplatform third party games.

And the PS3/360/PC combination will outsell the Wii version WW? What's your point? Aren't TOTAL sales the ones that count in the end?

Wow, you are INSANE.

There is nothing that made the XBOX 360 sell well, JRPG's, Loli Sims, and other games that appeal to the market.

There really is nothing INSANE about my prediction if you just use some common sense and basic math skils. Predicting that the 360 will sell 1 million LTD is not predicting that it will ever sell well. It just has to stick around in Japan for 4 years selling no better than it has been, and it will reach 1 million.

 

[jimbo]

You'll be banned again by christmas. That'll be GAF's gift to you. Maybe you can clear your head and rejoin reality.

Which reality is that? The one where the PS3 has bad third party support, and all the third parties inevitably putting all of their games on Wii?

No thanks, Wiiland is not for me.

 

[Innotech]

People will buy a combination of those. It will help the PS3 in that it will continue to get third party support by default just being part of a group of next generation consoles that can run next-gen multiplatform third party games.

And the PS3/360/PC combination will outsell the Wii version WW? What's your point? Aren't TOTAL sales the ones that count in the end?

while I agree that its goof for third party support by default, unfortunately all that means is a casual gamer seems most of the games he wants on a much cheaper 360 and buys there, basically making 360 versions almost exclusives. You can already see this effect with mass preorders for 360 versions of multiplatform games and relatively small numbers for Ps3 versions. Most people who dont brown nose sony will in fact buy a 360 for most of their gaming needs. The wii also appeals to these same gamers too but also a whole new subset. Ps3 is pretty much stuck with scraps. what it has now is again, because third party was coming off of Ps2 and figured Ps3 to be a sure bet. Its too late to cancel big projects so theyre oging ahead with them and in most cases making them multiplatform. But as said before that will only bolster the HD console that is actually selling.

 

[Xeke]

Which reality is that? The one where the PS3 has bad third party support, and all the third parties inevitably putting all of their games on Wii?

No thanks, Wiiland is not for me.

No. The one where the 360 version of games outsell the PS3 version and the publishers decide that the PS3 versions aren't selling enough to make them economically viable.

The 360 will get lots of games the PS3 would have gotten because of the nature of the machine but you're a fool to think the Wii wont get games that the PS3 might have had.

The gamecube had similar specs to the xbox but that didn't stop it from losing titles because they weren't economically viable.

 

[Sharp]

jimbo would be incredibly happy if the 360 versions of games massively outsold their PS3 versions. You have no idea. He's just playing devil's advocate for a moment.

 

[AniHawk]

People will buy a combination of those. It will help the PS3 in that it will continue to get third party support by default just being part of a group of next generation consoles that can run next-gen multiplatform third party games.

And the PS3/360/PC combination will outsell the Wii version WW? What's your point? Aren't TOTAL sales the ones that count in the end?

The Wii is currently outselling PS3+360 combined. It's only a month or so before the Wii overtakes the 360 and becomes the best selling system in overall sales. It'll probably be another year when it overtakes them both. By then you could either have a game that costs millions to make for a userbase spread amongst two systems, and hope PC players will buy it as well, or you could make it for one system, with much lower costs.

Of course, you could also make your game for everything, which is why Activision will be owning November 2007.

 

[ksamedi]

People will buy a combination of those. It will help the PS3 in that it will continue to get third party support by default just being part of a group of next generation consoles that can run next-gen multiplatform third party games.

And the PS3/360/PC combination will outsell the Wii version WW? What's your point? Aren't TOTAL sales the ones that count in the end?

By your logic, all console games would get a PC release, and the Cube would get a lot of third party support. It just doesnt work that way, every platform is unique and its a hell of a lot easier to convince third parties for exlusives with a big userbase than a small one. Look at recent announcements like Table Tennis, why not for PS3? because the Wii is perfectly suited for the game because of unique controls AND a fast selling console.

 

[PantherLotus]

1. I forsee a lot of crow eating in your future.

2. And yes for the record : I still predict the 360 will cross 1 mil in Japan.

3. PS. You were one of the ones that said the 360 wouldn't cross the Xbox's LTD in Japan weren't you? Yeah that crow shall be your Christmas present from I to you.

1. Crow eating? You've got some in your ****ing teeth and you don't even know it. Do you not remember going on and on about how the 3-week period around the holidays proved that the 360 was back and ready to make a resurgence? You continually do this bullshit--you make some ridiculous claim, minimize other's gains, talk circles around valid points..and never directly answer anything. You might make these threads more interesting than Numbers-comment-charts -comment-numbers....but if Sales threads are the ass of GAF, you're the asshole. You stink the whole joint up and all I ever see is bullshit. GTFO.

2. You're still a fool.

3. I never said that. Regardless, I don't think that's a landmark of any particular value. It's kinda like hoping that the Hindenburg II has a "little better" landing.

 

[Xeke]

The Wii is currently outselling PS3+360 combined. It's only a month or so before the Wii overtakes the 360 and becomes the best selling system in overall sales. It'll probably be another year when it overtakes them both. By then you could either have a game that costs millions to make for a userbase spread amongst two systems, and hope PC players will buy it as well, or you could make it for one system, with much lower costs.

Of course, you could also make your game for everything, which is why Activision will be owning November 2007.

It's pretty obvious that once the Wii hits the cube's 21 million LTD sales will stall.

 

[ksamedi]

1. Crow eating? You've got some in your ****ing teeth and you don't even know it. Do you not remember going on and on about how the 3-week period around the holidays proved that the 360 was back and ready to make a resurgence? You continually do this bullshit--you make some ridiculous claim, minimize other's gains, talk circles around valid points..and never directly answer anything. You might make these threads more interesting than Numbers-comment-charts -comment-numbers....but if Sales threads are the ass of GAF, you're the asshole. You stink the whole joint up and all I ever see is bullshit. GTFO.
2. You're still a fool.

3. I never said that. Regardless, I don't think that's a landmark of any particular value. It's kinda like hoping that the Hindenburg II has a "little better" landing.

:lol


BTW, since your the charts person, what are the average weekly numbers for the 360 from launch till now and how long it will take for the 360 to reach a million with this average? im too lazy to do calsulate this right now.

 

[Innotech]

PantherLotus for the goddamn win:lol

 

[Version 3.0]

On the topic of userbase vs. game sales:

I see a lot of "MnG5 sold well considering the userbase", because it sold to ~17% of PS3 owners. That's true, 17% is a very healthy number for the game.

But not for the system. On a healthy system, you're very, very unlikely to see that kind of first-week percentage, because a healthy system has a more diverse userbase. 5 times the userbase does not equal 5 times the sales for each game. It might equal 5x for a cross-platform game, or it might not, but it doesn't mean 5x sales for the big games, because on the healthier system, the entire userbase isn't waiting for that big game.

For example, the best-selling Xbox game, Halo 2, sold, what, 8 million? SSBM sold 6m or so? Well, the biggest PS2 game didn't do 5x that, it did about 2-3x. But if you count up the million-sellers, the PS2 surely had 5x as many, probably more.

 

[jimbo]

1. Crow eating? You've got some in your ****ing teeth and you don't even know it. Do you not remember going on and on about how the 3-week period around the holidays proved that the 360 was back and ready to make a resurgence? You continually do this bullshit--you make some ridiculous claim, minimize other's gains, talk circles around valid points..and never directly answer anything. You might make these threads more interesting than Numbers-comment-charts -comment-numbers....but if Sales threads are the ass of GAF, you're the asshole. You stink the whole joint up and all I ever see is bullshit. GTFO.

No that's not how I remember it actually. Not only do I not remember saying something like that(considering the 360 was never there so how could I even claim its back?) but I do remember a couple of you guys spinning stuff around, putting false words in my mouth(like that sound guy or whatever his name was) and saying that I stated the 360 will always sell over 10k a month, when in reality many others have pointed out that I never in fact made such claims.

And two, asshole or not, at least I usually don't resort to posts like yours.

The only claims I've ever made which I still stand by is that the 360 will not only pass the Xbox's LTD, but it will do it by the end of the year, and that its LTD will cross 1 million.

 

[rakka]

Wow, you are INSANE.

There is nothing that made the XBOX 360 sell well, JRPG's, Loli Sims, and other games that appeal to the market.

But isn't 360 at nearly half a million only a couple years in?

Not that I agree with everything else jimbo is trying to say.

 

[BishopLamont]

The GC never went from expensive to affordable to cheap. It went from cheap to cheaper.

A console that doesn't sell when it's cheap, with hardly any third party support, is likely not going to sell when it's cheaper, with the same or worse third party suppport.

But you can't apply the same logic to a console that's just plain expensive AND actually has good third party support.

PS3 and GC is in the same boat for everything, momentum, support, sales. The only difference is price. So tell me how a more expensive console going to succeed, when a cheaper console failed?

 

[Culex]

PS. You were one of the ones that said the 360 wouldn't cross the Xbox's LTD in Japan weren't you? Yeah that crow shall be your Christmas present from I to you.

Actually, I made that claim, not panther.

And it would take a MIRACLE for the 360 to hit 1 million in Japan. Do the math.

 

[Hcoregamer00]

But isn't 360 at nearly half a million only a couple years in?

Not that I agree with everything else jimbo is trying to say.

391,000 isn't "nearly half a million," that is more than 100,000 from half a million which is pretty damn far if they sell 3,000 a week.

There really is nothing INSANE about my prediction if you just use some common sense and basic math skils. Predicting that the 360 will sell 1 million LTD is not predicting that it will ever sell well. It just has to stick around in Japan for 4 years selling no better than it has been, and it will reach 1 million.

Let's do some math.

1,000,000 - 391,000 means they have to sell 609,000 consoles.

If they sell at the current rate of 3,000....no I will be generous 5,000 a week it will take 121.8 weeks. This assuming the unrealistic possibility that sales will improve over a consoles lifetime (when in reality the last place console typically has the sales drop off more and more as time moves along).

So in two years they could sell a million, with completely unrealistic expectations. That is assuming that sales will improve with time which goes against logic and common sense for the last place console.

 

[Innotech]

No that's not how I remember it actually. Not only do I not remember saying something like that(considering the 360 was never there so how could I even claim its back?) but I do remember a couple of you guys spinning stuff around, putting false words in my mouth(like that sound guy or whatever his name was) and saying that I stated the 360 will always sell over 10k a month, when in reality many others have pointed out that I never in fact made such claims.

And two, asshole or not, at least I usually don't resort to posts like yours.

The only claims I've ever made which I still stand by is that the 360 will not only pass the Xbox's LTD, but it will do it by the end of the year, and that its LTD will cross 1 million.

...its like hemorrhoids

 

[Version 3.0]

There really is nothing INSANE about my prediction if you just use some common sense and basic math skils. Predicting that the 360 will sell 1 million LTD is not predicting that it will ever sell well. It just has to stick around in Japan for 4 years selling no better than it has been, and it will reach 1 million.

Common sense? As Mark Twain said, it ain't so common. In 4 years, the Xbox 360 will be selling in double-digit weekly numbers. The Xbox, in it's 4-year launch anniversary week in Japan, sold 92 units, for a grand total of almost half a million (which it never hit). If the 360 does really well (relatively), maybe it'll still be selling over 100 by then and hit the half-million mark.

 

[gimz]

what should we expect for tonight?

.

 

[PantherLotus]

If the 360 sold 3,000 every week from this moment forward, it would take 204 weeks (4 years from now) for it to hit 1 million.