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Metal Gear Community Thread: Made you wait, didn't I?
- Thread starter JayEH
- Start date
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Nope.
He was possessed until some point after MGS2, where he had Liquid's arm surgically removed and replaced with an artificial one. After that, he faked Liquid possessing him.
TheLetdown
Member
Playing through this, as well. The positive about the boss fights is that you can always go back to Select a Mission and re-arm yourself with the appropriate weaponry. A downside, though, is that they've made
Supply Mk.
Acid 2 improves on everything that 1 did, but it's every bit as unconventional as the first one. Weird would be another way to put them, but I enjoyed those games.
You filthy American dog!
OK, well I stand corrected. I was pretty sure about the MGS4 faking, though.
The way I understand it is he basically took some drugs that pushed back his "Revolver" persona and brought out his "Liquid" persona. That's why the during the entirety of MGS4 Liquid Ocelot is basically a mish-mash of Revolver and Liquid, combining characteristics of both (Ocelot's mysterious and egotistical nature, Liquid's theatrics and obsession with French). Made him cool antagonist, though. I always though Liquid and Revolver were pretty similar characters to begin with (in MGS1, anyway). I think the biggest difference was their moral compass and values (Ocelot always seemed more self-centered, where as Liquid had "lofty" goals).
The actual explanation was psychological treatment through hypnosis to force Liquid's personality into Ocelote iirc.
At franchise level I can say the MGS series is my favorite one. All three games from the original Solid trilogy are in my top ten games of all time, so I am by no means a hater of the series or of Kojima. He made those three games and for that he will always be a genius in my book. But ohh boy if I wasn't dissappointed by Guns of the Patriots. Worst MGS I've ever played. Actually it is the only one I haven't liked so far. I have yet to play Portable Ops, Rising and Ground Zeroes. Peace Walker was almost a return to top form story-wise until that ending with the robot-ghost singing and what they did to Paz happened, way to ruin such a lovely character just for the sake of shock and out-of-ass plot twists.
Back to MGS4. Snake deserved so much more. During the whole game Kojima shits on him. I've never seen a creator treat one of his most important characters so bad. I mean, dude gets old as fuck even though he is in his 40's (I know it's because he was genetically engineered that way, which sucks), his crush from MGS1 stops giving a damn about him as a woman and gets married with the guy who shits his pants. If looking old wasn't enough he gets a permanent big burn on half of his face, and when he finally finds out that his father is alive and it's Big Boss and starts sharing some father-son love he watches him die before his eyes because he gets killed by Snake's FOXDIE virus. And when everybody is partying in Meryl's wedding, even Otacon, his closest friend, he waits for his premature and inevitable death, alone... He deserved way better than that.
And that fucking moustache, I never liked it. If Kojima wanted the moustache so bad he should have left the beard as well. Some characters look good sporting a 'stache, Snake is not one of them. He looked better in the first posters of MGS4 when it seemed the game would take place closer to MGS2, when Raiden rescues Sunny from the Patriots:
In this artwork even gameplay mechanics are discussed. I don't know what happened during development but something tells me that MGS4 set in that time period would had been better and less batshit crazy (look at that badass Raiden):
The scene where Meryl and Johnny fight against all the FROGS, dear God... I remember the first time they are introduced to them in the game, Meryl, his whole team and Snake are there, and they are like "Holy shit (gasp)... guys, wait... it's the FROGS!! Liquid's personal guard!! If we joke around they will kill us all." In the cutscene where they are ambushed by just three FROGS, Snake and Johnny didn't even engage in combat because they didn't have nanomachines to communicate at lightning-fast precision with the rest of the team. That's right, they were so worried about confronting the FROGS that Meryl's fully-connected team minus Johnny took the lead. The outcome was each one taking one down, but one of the guys receiving a bullet. The fight lasted seconds, only three shots fired. There was no room for error. Fast-forward to the last part of the game and you have only Meryl and Johnny fighting against a shit ton of FROGS, coming nonstop at them, at the same time, and somehow they manage to beat all of them, while surrounded on a room's entrance, with Johnny without nanomachines, with both getting wounded, and while FLIRTING, declaring their love and shooting without even looking at them, Jesus Christ.......... At that point I seriously asked myself: am I playing an MGS game or am I watching some random generic romantic comedy?
Meryl's wedding, in general all of it but especially the part where she points her gun at Campbell's face, so overly dramatic, unnecessary and without reason, just to add artificial shock to the scene. And of course nobody gives a shit about Snake dying and being alone, it's all fun and laughs at the party. And speaking of over-dramatic I just remembered the part where Big Mama (horrible name, it sounds bad and I always think of Martin Lawrence in that fat suit) watches the body of Big Boss burning (which was actually Solidus'), and decides to walk over it for no reason, setting herself on fire, screaming and dying afterwards, instead of just trying to pull the body out of the fire,
Also when Raiden and Vamp are about to fight in Shadow Moses and a lot of Gekkos break in. The point of cutscenes is to feel like you are watching a movie, to be immersed in the story, that what you are watching is really happening in the universe of the game. Yet here they have Snake literally pulling a railgun out of his ass because hey that's how it happens during gameplay. Instead of thinking of a way to justify story-wise Snake carrying a railgun all the way through Shadow Moses or Raiden giving it to him to fight the Gekkos or whatever, they decide to be lazy and merge the cutscene with gameplay mechanics and having Snake pulling that stunt. Not satisfied with that it happened again minutes later, in the cutscene of Snake chasing Liquid at the port and the Mark II giving to him a long-ass assault rifle that obviously doesn't fit into its compartment but it took it out of there anyway because again that's how it happens during gameplay. It looks so ridiculous. And these weren't the typical in-gameplay little "cutscenes", these where full featured cutscenes with black bars at top and down, when you really get the feeling that this is happening in "real life".
Also REX getting back to functional form. That thing got tired of exploding once and again in MGS1, the flames were huge, the damn building was shacking from the inside out because of the explosions. Yet all that hardware damage, all that twisted metal, all those internal circuits destroyed can be fixed by Mark II with a software patch
I'm calling it, Otacon best programmer ever, not even Sunny can design software that fixes hardware. I really enjoyed the REX vs. RAY fight, it was so awesome, but goddamn that way of getting it back was so cheap, so forced, so fan service, as many other things in the game. The whole game felt like Kojima trying his hardest to emulate the bombastic style and cheese of a blockbuster Hollywood movie while forgetting what made the original trilogy so great: telling the story with his own style.
The part where they use the sort of catapults to board Liquid's submarine, God knows how many dozens of meters (if not over a hundred) they were thrown up in the air yet they land with no parachutes, no springs, no shock absorbers, no nothing, and not a single leg or arm was broken that day. Unbelievable. Again, lazy writing.
To say the plot was convoluted is an understatement. When you have to go to the extent of bringing the man himself Big Boss, who knows everything, back from his grave to painstakingly explain during like half an hour what's happening and still end up with the story as confusing as at the beginning of the game if not even more you know something is wrong. I mean, the game released its own official Wikipedia, for fucks sake. Someone could argue that we didn't put enough attention and that if you unravel the whole thing it makes sense, but I highly doubt it. Kojima himself has to resort to retcons every once in awhile to explain his own shit, and he already warned us of more retcons coming for GZ-TPP. So no, this is already past the point of not putting enough attention. MGS1 had the perfect balance between mystery and explanation, MGS2 just had those 10 minutes of crazy codec talk with Campbell toward the end but beyond that it was understandable, and MGS3 added more lore without confusing the player. But MGS4 just went full retard.
Ironically enough, this game made Raiden my favorite character. I didn't hate him in MGS2 but I didn't think he was cooler than Snake either. But MGS4 happened and Snake got shat, and Raiden was reborn. I think Raiden's story is the only good thing in the game. Something like that is what Snake deserved. Raiden got to kick ass, he looked cool, he was powerful, he was lethal, he saved Snake many times, he took care of Sunny, and at the end he even reunited with his own family, with Rose and his son! Yes, a son! Raiden is a father! How cool is that? Meanwhile Snake was treated like shit during the entire game, was owned like a bitch by Ocelot in hand-to-hand combat of all the things (the part where he uses CQC), was saved by Raiden, was saved by Meryl, was dumped by Meryl, was saved by Otacon, was saved by Drebin, hell he was even saved by Sunny (via software, and saved the entire world for that matter). He couldn't do shit on his own, and died alone like an old fart. This reminds me of the part in Skyfall where Q says to Bond that he could do way more damage from his computer in one hour than Bond could ever hope for in a year. The game felt just like that (except in the movie Bond gets a lot of shit done). No love or respect for Snake at all.
Bottom line, MGS4 was a fine game gameplay-wise, but a god awful MGS story-wise. I think MGS4 is to the MGS series what Alien 3 is to the Alien series, a decent movie on its own that when placed among the others shits on the potential of its predecessors.
MGS3 > MGS1 > MGS2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGSPW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGS4
P.S. If you read through all this thank you for your time.
Back to MGS4. Snake deserved so much more. During the whole game Kojima shits on him. I've never seen a creator treat one of his most important characters so bad. I mean, dude gets old as fuck even though he is in his 40's (I know it's because he was genetically engineered that way, which sucks), his crush from MGS1 stops giving a damn about him as a woman and gets married with the guy who shits his pants. If looking old wasn't enough he gets a permanent big burn on half of his face, and when he finally finds out that his father is alive and it's Big Boss and starts sharing some father-son love he watches him die before his eyes because he gets killed by Snake's FOXDIE virus. And when everybody is partying in Meryl's wedding, even Otacon, his closest friend, he waits for his premature and inevitable death, alone... He deserved way better than that.
And that fucking moustache, I never liked it. If Kojima wanted the moustache so bad he should have left the beard as well. Some characters look good sporting a 'stache, Snake is not one of them. He looked better in the first posters of MGS4 when it seemed the game would take place closer to MGS2, when Raiden rescues Sunny from the Patriots:
In this artwork even gameplay mechanics are discussed. I don't know what happened during development but something tells me that MGS4 set in that time period would had been better and less batshit crazy (look at that badass Raiden):
The scene where Meryl and Johnny fight against all the FROGS, dear God... I remember the first time they are introduced to them in the game, Meryl, his whole team and Snake are there, and they are like "Holy shit (gasp)... guys, wait... it's the FROGS!! Liquid's personal guard!! If we joke around they will kill us all." In the cutscene where they are ambushed by just three FROGS, Snake and Johnny didn't even engage in combat because they didn't have nanomachines to communicate at lightning-fast precision with the rest of the team. That's right, they were so worried about confronting the FROGS that Meryl's fully-connected team minus Johnny took the lead. The outcome was each one taking one down, but one of the guys receiving a bullet. The fight lasted seconds, only three shots fired. There was no room for error. Fast-forward to the last part of the game and you have only Meryl and Johnny fighting against a shit ton of FROGS, coming nonstop at them, at the same time, and somehow they manage to beat all of them, while surrounded on a room's entrance, with Johnny without nanomachines, with both getting wounded, and while FLIRTING, declaring their love and shooting without even looking at them, Jesus Christ.......... At that point I seriously asked myself: am I playing an MGS game or am I watching some random generic romantic comedy?
Meryl's wedding, in general all of it but especially the part where she points her gun at Campbell's face, so overly dramatic, unnecessary and without reason, just to add artificial shock to the scene. And of course nobody gives a shit about Snake dying and being alone, it's all fun and laughs at the party. And speaking of over-dramatic I just remembered the part where Big Mama (horrible name, it sounds bad and I always think of Martin Lawrence in that fat suit) watches the body of Big Boss burning (which was actually Solidus'), and decides to walk over it for no reason, setting herself on fire, screaming and dying afterwards, instead of just trying to pull the body out of the fire,
Also when Raiden and Vamp are about to fight in Shadow Moses and a lot of Gekkos break in. The point of cutscenes is to feel like you are watching a movie, to be immersed in the story, that what you are watching is really happening in the universe of the game. Yet here they have Snake literally pulling a railgun out of his ass because hey that's how it happens during gameplay. Instead of thinking of a way to justify story-wise Snake carrying a railgun all the way through Shadow Moses or Raiden giving it to him to fight the Gekkos or whatever, they decide to be lazy and merge the cutscene with gameplay mechanics and having Snake pulling that stunt. Not satisfied with that it happened again minutes later, in the cutscene of Snake chasing Liquid at the port and the Mark II giving to him a long-ass assault rifle that obviously doesn't fit into its compartment but it took it out of there anyway because again that's how it happens during gameplay. It looks so ridiculous. And these weren't the typical in-gameplay little "cutscenes", these where full featured cutscenes with black bars at top and down, when you really get the feeling that this is happening in "real life".
Also REX getting back to functional form. That thing got tired of exploding once and again in MGS1, the flames were huge, the damn building was shacking from the inside out because of the explosions. Yet all that hardware damage, all that twisted metal, all those internal circuits destroyed can be fixed by Mark II with a software patch
I'm calling it, Otacon best programmer ever, not even Sunny can design software that fixes hardware. I really enjoyed the REX vs. RAY fight, it was so awesome, but goddamn that way of getting it back was so cheap, so forced, so fan service, as many other things in the game. The whole game felt like Kojima trying his hardest to emulate the bombastic style and cheese of a blockbuster Hollywood movie while forgetting what made the original trilogy so great: telling the story with his own style.The part where they use the sort of catapults to board Liquid's submarine, God knows how many dozens of meters (if not over a hundred) they were thrown up in the air yet they land with no parachutes, no springs, no shock absorbers, no nothing, and not a single leg or arm was broken that day. Unbelievable. Again, lazy writing.
To say the plot was convoluted is an understatement. When you have to go to the extent of bringing the man himself Big Boss, who knows everything, back from his grave to painstakingly explain during like half an hour what's happening and still end up with the story as confusing as at the beginning of the game if not even more you know something is wrong. I mean, the game released its own official Wikipedia, for fucks sake. Someone could argue that we didn't put enough attention and that if you unravel the whole thing it makes sense, but I highly doubt it. Kojima himself has to resort to retcons every once in awhile to explain his own shit, and he already warned us of more retcons coming for GZ-TPP. So no, this is already past the point of not putting enough attention. MGS1 had the perfect balance between mystery and explanation, MGS2 just had those 10 minutes of crazy codec talk with Campbell toward the end but beyond that it was understandable, and MGS3 added more lore without confusing the player. But MGS4 just went full retard.
Ironically enough, this game made Raiden my favorite character. I didn't hate him in MGS2 but I didn't think he was cooler than Snake either. But MGS4 happened and Snake got shat, and Raiden was reborn. I think Raiden's story is the only good thing in the game. Something like that is what Snake deserved. Raiden got to kick ass, he looked cool, he was powerful, he was lethal, he saved Snake many times, he took care of Sunny, and at the end he even reunited with his own family, with Rose and his son! Yes, a son! Raiden is a father! How cool is that? Meanwhile Snake was treated like shit during the entire game, was owned like a bitch by Ocelot in hand-to-hand combat of all the things (the part where he uses CQC), was saved by Raiden, was saved by Meryl, was dumped by Meryl, was saved by Otacon, was saved by Drebin, hell he was even saved by Sunny (via software, and saved the entire world for that matter). He couldn't do shit on his own, and died alone like an old fart. This reminds me of the part in Skyfall where Q says to Bond that he could do way more damage from his computer in one hour than Bond could ever hope for in a year. The game felt just like that (except in the movie Bond gets a lot of shit done). No love or respect for Snake at all.
Bottom line, MGS4 was a fine game gameplay-wise, but a god awful MGS story-wise. I think MGS4 is to the MGS series what Alien 3 is to the Alien series, a decent movie on its own that when placed among the others shits on the potential of its predecessors.
MGS3 > MGS1 > MGS2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGSPW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MGS4
P.S. If you read through all this thank you for your time.
family_guy
Member
MGS4 just felt like Kojima wanted to character assassinate Solid Snake. For some reason he decided he didn't like him anymore. You could feel some of that in MGS2 by having Snake be a background character to 70% of the game. Not sure why Big Boss was so much more interesting to him.
Metal Gear?!
lalalalalalalaaaa
I'm going to either hate or love PW when I get to play it.
tryagainlater
Member
Some of your complaints, Agnosia, are a bit odd since a lot of them can be levied towards other games in the series such as Snake pulling a railgun out of his ass (which is just video games really) where Big Boss pulls an RPG out of nowhere in the bike chase scene to blow up falling debris to save Ocelot which makes no fucking sense anyway. Just thought it was a silly thing to bring up. I agree with some of what you said although I very much enjoyed MGS4. That Johnny and Meryl cutscene is probably the worst cutscene of anything ever.
I'm also surprised you think Raiden is a strong part of the game. I honestly think he's one of the worst. Now there's a character assassination where all his development from the end of MGS2 is erased but I suppose Hideo felt he needed to change the character after the incredible negative reaction to him. Metal Gear Rising's Raiden is the real sequel for MGS2 Raiden.
I'm also surprised you think Raiden is a strong part of the game. I honestly think he's one of the worst. Now there's a character assassination where all his development from the end of MGS2 is erased but I suppose Hideo felt he needed to change the character after the incredible negative reaction to him. Metal Gear Rising's Raiden is the real sequel for MGS2 Raiden.
LelouchViBritannia
Member
Hey guys, new member here. Im so happy to be able to join the MGS community. Ive been a fan ever since i was a kid.
Ive played all of them apart from ground zeroes.
Ive played all of them apart from ground zeroes.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I actually like MGS4, but you make good points here. Solid Snake didn't need to be character assassinated just because he was old. There are so many other ways they could have handled a "dying Snake" and still had him maintain a sense of heroism and that old Snake gusto that we all loved. He just felt so... debilitated. For the entire game. The world, the characters, and the events all just rained down on him constantly.
To be fair, he finally pilots a Metal Gear, crawls through a microwave hallway while almost dying, and emerges from that to fight Ocelot in a one-on-one fistfight and win. So I don't think the game was devoid of Snake being Snake. But he was portrayed as too... geriatric, I guess, for much of the game. Like that was too much of the focus of the game. Also, the stache was pretty bad, yeah. I think it was to differentiate him from Big Boss's beard, but it still didn't look good.
You've also reminded me of this: doesn't it feel like some of the most important events in the series happen in between games or off screen? We never meet the Darpa chief himself. We don't see Liquid's uprising - we don't see him kill Kaz or take over Shadow Moses. The codec team from MGS3 transforms from a ragtag bunch of goofballs into an organization of megalomaniacs. Raiden rescues Sunny from The Patriots and is nearly killed in the process. Even Big Boss mentioning to Snake that he's his father happens off screen at some point.
Hey thanks for adding me there but the link to my playlist is wrong, should be https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQXGtqa-bIanCEz_cKiHxAXgYkvHkg8YV. (looks like the link in the OP copied the shortened forum url)
I will be adding new speed runs this weekend.
SpaceBridge
Member
Just finished Peace Walker for the second time last night. Still a great game, even these years over.
Three times for me, one on psp, one on HD and again before GZ launched. I can definitely see myself playing through it again somewhere down the line.
But man, screw S ranking all those long, boring, near endless vehicle boss battles again, in fact, screw even going near them ever again.
Beat Metal Gear Acid 1.... And what the hell? Can someone please explain the ending?
Who is No.104 ? Alice or Minette? Alice mentioned that she IS the No. 104.
Why did Lena kill everyone in the plane? What is her motive?
Why did Alice die? I don't get it.. is it because of FOXDIE? or something else?
And, who exactly is Hans Davis? Charles? Viggo? or part of Snake?
I watched one video in YouTube about MGA story.. and it confused me more :/
Why did Lena kill everyone in the plane? What is her motive?
Why did Alice die? I don't get it.. is it because of FOXDIE? or something else?
And, who exactly is Hans Davis? Charles? Viggo? or part of Snake?
I watched one video in YouTube about MGA story.. and it confused me more :/
Agnosia your points are fair but I personally see things differently.
I don't mind that Snake had a shitty hand dealt to him. Life isn't always fair and having Snake go through all that and still have the audacity to stand up for his beliefs only strengthens his character, not to mention that they pulled off some incredibly gut punching emotional moments because of that. Heroes don't always have happy endings and I think Kojima pulled off his character perfectly well, he had a hard life all the time and unfortunately he didn't get that much of an happy end either, you could say he was doomed simply for the fact that he was a clone of Big Boss, born a tool of war.
In regards to Johnny, while I do not like his character all that much I dont think he is that bad of a character from a narrative perspective. He is "the coward" but at the end he ended up being a hero because he didn't rely on "dangerous" and "exploitable" technology like the nanomachines in MGS 4, it was a sort of stealth message about the dangers of being completely dependant on technology.
I also didn't mind how Meryl and Snake didn't become lovers forever, sometimes relationships just don't work out and their lifestyles were just incompatible, it felt like a natural state of affairs and they were still on friendly terms tbh no complaints there for me.
In regards to the Eva thing.. well I really don't have an explanation for that but I choose to believe that she had nothing else to live for and that was her way of getting things to move along, her last sacrifice to complete the mission. Big Boss was already planning to kill himself after all.
You didn't like the direction they took with the story and that's perfectly reasonable. It only shows how varied the human psyche is.
I don't mind that Snake had a shitty hand dealt to him. Life isn't always fair and having Snake go through all that and still have the audacity to stand up for his beliefs only strengthens his character, not to mention that they pulled off some incredibly gut punching emotional moments because of that. Heroes don't always have happy endings and I think Kojima pulled off his character perfectly well, he had a hard life all the time and unfortunately he didn't get that much of an happy end either, you could say he was doomed simply for the fact that he was a clone of Big Boss, born a tool of war.
In regards to Johnny, while I do not like his character all that much I dont think he is that bad of a character from a narrative perspective. He is "the coward" but at the end he ended up being a hero because he didn't rely on "dangerous" and "exploitable" technology like the nanomachines in MGS 4, it was a sort of stealth message about the dangers of being completely dependant on technology.
I also didn't mind how Meryl and Snake didn't become lovers forever, sometimes relationships just don't work out and their lifestyles were just incompatible, it felt like a natural state of affairs and they were still on friendly terms tbh no complaints there for me.
In regards to the Eva thing.. well I really don't have an explanation for that but I choose to believe that she had nothing else to live for and that was her way of getting things to move along, her last sacrifice to complete the mission. Big Boss was already planning to kill himself after all.
You didn't like the direction they took with the story and that's perfectly reasonable. It only shows how varied the human psyche is.
KittenMaster
Member
MGS4 tried to give Snake finality and kill him off at the same time. It's not the first time a creator tried to off his creation only for popularity to make it resurface again.
Since we're talking about Johnny, that scene with him and Meryl proposing in a gunfight would've been cringeworthy no matter how cool the characters were or which characters were being paired together. It's a goofy scene placed within an epic set of events, and stands out poorly because of it. Otherwise Johnny x Meryl is an interesting twist had it been executed better.
Since we're talking about Johnny, that scene with him and Meryl proposing in a gunfight would've been cringeworthy no matter how cool the characters were or which characters were being paired together. It's a goofy scene placed within an epic set of events, and stands out poorly because of it. Otherwise Johnny x Meryl is an interesting twist had it been executed better.
LOL.
Oh god that boss fight is one of the worst.
"What? Why? What?"
And I agreed with Knight and Drk when MGS4 just throws away all MGS2 stuff and retcons it.
I rather have things being left up to interpretation than..what we got.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
I'd be lucky if I ever play this game again. I think one run will be good enough for me, just want to make sure I understand the story because the little summary in front of ground zeroes did not give me enough context. Just got on chapter 3 myself.
That and the dumb song the robots hum, it really grinds on my nerves. The person who was in charge of sound design needs a new job.
I've replayed every MGS game in the last few weeks, tackling MGS4 right now. Gameplay-wise it's decent enough today, a tad too easy. It's ridiculous how much ammo, suppressors and healing items you get on a regular basis(playing on hard mode). Then there's the broke ass Drebin mode. I really don't get a lot of the decisions in this game. If the fat could be trimmed the first couple of acts could be great and not just good. But there is the rest of the game to contend with, anyway. Speaking of which, the cutscenes are just as long, expository and boring as before. I can appreciate them on a technical level at least.
Codecs are such a disgrace though after how entertaining and funny they can be in the previous games, don't know why they bothered. I really got a new appreciation for MGS2's when I played it just recently. That game is just a comedy to be honest.
Codecs are such a disgrace though after how entertaining and funny they can be in the previous games, don't know why they bothered. I really got a new appreciation for MGS2's when I played it just recently. That game is just a comedy to be honest.
Before that scene you are talking about, in another cutscene where the chase started Big Boss says about Shagohod that "the RPG can't put a dent in that armor", so you can conclude they had one somewhere in the bike, the copilot's seat had enough room for it. But in the case of MGS4 how can you excuse it, by saying he had it hidden in his ass? Also he did't shoot the debris to save Ocelot but to free the path from obstacles and keep the bike moving or else they would had to backtrack and risk an encounter with Shagohod. Saving Ocelot was a byproduct of that action, not the motive.
About Raiden, a lot of shit happens between MGS2 and MGS4. Who knows what Raiden had to go through. In MGS4 he is a full cyborg already and has become way more serious. You could say that Kojima changed him just for the sake of coolness but at least there's room to explain that change story-wise, the gap between those games. But he is still very human, again the scenes with Sunny and his family. I don't think there was a character assassination there at all, more like character development, it's just that we didn't get to see much of the developing part but the outcome of it.
It definitely had its moments. There's a thing about MGS games, they are so good that even when one of them is bad it's still good by general gaming standards. If I had to score MGS4 objectively I would give it a 9.4, but still I didn't like it. Does that make any sense? XD
Your last sentence sums it up perfectly. It's not like MGS4 is a bad game, I just didn't like the course things took, except for Raiden. I'm not critizising that Snake's life wasn't pretty, but the way they made him go through it. Take Deadpool for example, his life and body are very fucked up, but you don't see him go like "I'm so lonely, nobody loves me, I have nothing worth living for" etc. In MGS4 Snake feels the whole game like "My life is so fucked up, there's nothing I can do about it, I'm going to kill myself". That's not the Snake I knew and loved in MGS1-2. That's a weak old fart that feels so much pity for himself that he doesn't know what to do with his life anymore. MGS1 Snake was a drunk if you want but he kept his life going. MGS2 Snake had a purpose, wanted to save the world with Otacon and their Philanthropy organization. But MGS4 Snake just wants to fucking die already.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of this. We see MGS4 the same way, it seems.
Fancy Clown
Member
MGS3 Ocelot is amazing. I mean, Ocelot is always amazing but I love seeing him so green
SamuelSupreme
Banned
The Best one was by Far MGS3. I am however starting to see the flaws in MGS4 and while I still consider it a classic...it was bit hyperbolic of me to claim it as the greatest game of all time back in 2008. Still with the way Ground Zeroes plays I am quite excited for TPP
I think I'm gonna stop with MGS4 at the middle of act 2. It's kind of a chore. It's sad how poorly it has aged, the whole idea behind "warzone stealth" was a failure. I just replayed MGS1, 2 and 3 all the way to the end and I had a blast with each. Thankfully MGSV seems to be a return to form, I hope every level is as well designed as Camp Omega.
KittenMaster
Member
I haven't played it in years but still remember Snake using the Hind D's missile as a trampoline to launch a stinger mid air.
Might go on ebay see if I can find a copy...
The whole 007 exchange between Snake and Major Zero was awesome. I also laughed at the mention of a snake-shaped gun, rather than a pen-shaped one like in Bond films, so Snake could pretend he was struggling against one to throw enemies off. It's the only time I remember Zero being so exhasperated over something, which helped make the situation even better.
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