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[cireza]

Razor's Edge is the most challenging (no healing items) and you can play the whole campaign with the female characters. It also wastes no time with puzzles/backtracking and the camera is a HUGE improvement over the previous 2 games, which is something crucial in an action game.

Yeah, Razor's Edge is clearly the better game. It is simply more interesting, challenging and straight to the point.

I completed II Black and this game is an absolute mess. You get excellent gameplay, some great bosses, but you can't have fun more than 5 minutes until you get some shitty platforming, a water section, a shitty giant boss fight, stupid lock on that always changes to a new enemy instead of the one you are about to kill, bow that never locks on the enemies in the distance that shoot at you, and that absolutely abysmal camera. This makes it a chore to play.

Razor's Edge has none of these issues, it is simply a much better game. And you can play the entire game with all characters, with unlocks, this is great. You also get one hidden challenge in each stage, and this is super fun. In II Black, the three stages for the girls are absolute dogshit. Short and recycled content.

 

[Generic]

Challenge my ass. You can turn off your brain in the campaign because even bosses are boringly predictable. I was more challenged by the awful image quality and lack of consistent lighting in NG3RE than the camera in NGB or NGII.

This isn't true since you can't spam ultimate in Razor's Edge.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Incoming damage is far lower in Sigma 2 and Black. And there are no explosive kunai and barely any projectiles. I played both versions this week and on Acolyte I was more often on the brink of death in the original. Warrior already gets outright nasty, while I would advise to start with this difficulty in 2 Black.

As I've mentioned several times in this thread, I'm playing both at the same time on warrior, and the enemies die just as quickly to the staff in both and their damage is the same; neither game is difficult.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Interesting that in NG2 Black on Warrior difficulty, I get 3 Spiderbosses instead of only 2. The 3rd Spiderboss spawns after you kill any of the 1st two.
I haven't killed a 2nd Spiderboss on that section, so I don't know if a 4th boss spawns.

My Dual Sword isn't leveled, so was using the Scythe. I might swap back to the Lunar Staff. So far I haven't any major problems with the bosses, but I was failing this scene last night like a noob.

 

[NeverYouMind]

This isn't true since you can't spam ultimate in Razor's Edge.

Did you forget about steel-on-bone spam?

 

[Larsowitz]

the biggest downgrade are the reflections...

the pretty good and clean planar reflections of the original were replaced by ugly, super unstable, smeary Lumen and Screen Space Reflections.

while the Lumen/SSR reflections cover most reflective surfaces, where on 360 most reflections are cubemaps and simple reflections with only select surfaces like large water bodies had detailed reflections... the super low quality of the Lumen/SSR reflections in Black are more of a distraction than an actual upgrade... like they look so fucking bad! SO BAAAD... it's insane...

Can you turn off reflections in the PC version? In some games (re2 remake) you turn them off and then you get cubemaps.

 

[kevboard]

Can you turn off reflections in the PC version? In some games (re2 remake) you turn them off and then you get cubemaps.

I only tested the PC version briefly as the Xbox app version was an outdated one that was only patched yesterday I think.

in most UE5 games you can at the very least to some .ini tweaks to turn them off or modify them.

I'll update the game later and see how that goes.
but I don't think you'll be able to turn them off in-game, as the entire lighting is Lumen based sadly, and often that is tied in with Lumen reflections.

what I usually do is keep the RT Lumen reflections enabled, and take away the Screen space Reflections that get overlayed through .ini tweaks.
that way the Lumen reflections act like decent looking cubemaps, while no distractinh SSR bullshit is layered on top.

 

[DeVeAn]

So, I decided to play Sigma 2 after playing black 2 a bunch.

UI better in Black 2 and load times. Also can definitely tell Sigma 2 enemies have more health. Looks cleaner but feels laggy a bit compared to Black 2. Forgot how WACK the statue bosses were.

Black 2 is way better compared to Sigma 2.

 

[Sub_Level]

Finally beat first Zedonius fight on Mentor without Ninpo. Almost every youtube “no damage” video has them using Inferno ninpo. Its like yeah no shit the fight is easy when you don’t have the other enemies. Was able to clean house with the Tonfas.

The Tonfas are so fucking awesome, brehs. In the 360 game maybe the Scythe was the star but in Black 2 the Tonfas are king.

 

[kevboard]

Can you turn off reflections in the PC version? In some games (re2 remake) you turn them off and then you get cubemaps.

I only tested the PC version briefly as the Xbox app version was an outdated one that was only patched yesterday I think.

in most UE5 games you can at the very least to some .ini tweaks to turn them off or modify them.

I'll update the game later and see how that goes.
but I don't think you'll be able to turn them off in-game, as the entire lighting is Lumen based sadly, and often that is tied in with Lumen reflections.

what I usually do is keep the RT Lumen reflections enabled, and take away the Screen space Reflections that get overlayed through .ini tweaks.
that way the Lumen reflections act like decent looking cubemaps, while no distractinh SSR bullshit is layered on top.

so I tested the game now on PC, and tried to get rid of the screen space reflections... the only way to disable SSR is to use Universal Unreal Unlocker 5 and completely disabling all reflections.

i tried using r.lumen.reflections.screentraces=0 both by adding it into the config file and by entering it as a console command using UUU5, neither method removes the screen space reflections.

so your only choice is A: using SSR only by setting reflections to the lowest setting, B: Using Software Lumen + SSR, C: Using Hardware Lumen + SSR, or D: Using UUU5 to turn all reflections completely off (I think there aren't even any cubemaps in this case)

the best looking version is using the lowest reflection setting, so only SSR.
Lumen is legit the worst thing to ever happen to video game graphics, and it's not even close.
it's so UNFATHOMABLY doghsit in nearly all games, it's actually insane.

here, a quick video of how the reflections can look in the game (this is an extreme example, but it shows just how fucked in the head a dev has to be to include this shit in the first place)

0:00 Hardware Lumen (Highest Setting) - Looks the worst... basically broken
0:30 Software Lumen (Highest Setting) - Look shit, but not broken
0:50 SSR Only (lowest Reflection Setting) - Looks shit, but has the least artifacting




and this right here is exactly why I cringe every time I see the Unreal Engine logo these days. "just slap lumen on it" is basically the mantra with this dogshit engine.

 

[Larsowitz]

so I tested the game now on PC, and tried to get rid of the screen space reflections... the only way to disable SSR is to use Universal Unreal Unlocker 5 and completely disabling all reflections.

i tried using r.lumen.reflections.screentraces=0 both by adding it into the config file and by entering it as a console command using UUU5, neither method removes the screen space reflections.

so your only choice is A: using SSR only by setting reflections to the lowest setting, B: Using Software Lumen + SSR, C: Using Hardware Lumen + SSR, or D: Using UUU5 to turn all reflections completely off (I think there aren't even any cubemaps in this case)

the best looking version is using the lowest reflection setting, so only SSR.
Lumen is legit the worst thing to ever happen to video game graphics, and it's not even close.
it's so UNFATHOMABLY doghsit in nearly all games, it's actually insane.

here, a quick video of how the reflections can look in the game (this is an extreme example, but it shows just how fucked in the head a dev has to be to include this shit in the first place)

0:00 Hardware Lumen (Highest Setting) - Looks the worst... basically broken
0:30 Software Lumen0:50 (Highest Setting) - Look shit, but not broken
SSR Only (lowest Reflection Setting) - Looks shit, but has the least artifacting




and this right here is exactly why I cringe every time I see the Unreal Engine logo these days. "just slap lumen on it" is basically the mantra with this dogshit engine.

Thanks. Tested yesterday as well. Same conclusion, light reflection look best.

 

[Larsowitz]

This is a very good and detailed comparison of the original 360 version vs black 2:

 

[Timberwolf25]

This is a very good and detailed comparison of the original 360 version vs black 2:

Still watching since it is a long vid, but so far I agree with a lot of his points that he is making

 

[Celcius]

This is really giving my 3090 a run for it's money. I had to run DLSS balanced for 4K to be playable.

 

[NorthernSword]

I can't believe the dodge bug that has been present since NG2 on X360 is still present. You will be holding block and your character spaces out and starts to turn slowly and your inputs are ignored. Pretty sweet to get 1 hit killed on MN by a grab that your character just goes on standby to take.

There is a balance update in a couple weeks and some people think they may finally fix this after 20 years.... it's been in every version of NG2.

 

[Miles708]

I can't believe the dodge bug that has been present since NG2 on X360 is still present. You will be holding block and your character spaces out and starts to turn slowly and your inputs are ignored. Pretty sweet to get 1 hit killed on MN by a grab that your character just goes on standby to take.

There is a balance update in a couple weeks and some people think they may finally fix this after 20 years.... it's been in every version of NG2.

I don't remember this bug on X360, how to trigger it?

 

[SkylineRKR]

This is a very good and detailed comparison of the original 360 version vs black 2:

Hes rather spot on. He did enemy counts etc, but as he pointed out its not just that. Its also the use of variable enemy types in a skirmish. In the original you will find a few mages among the pack of enemies at the blossom trees. This always forces me to adapt because they are the most deadly and can control the area with casts. They usually stay behind regular mobs, but its best to prioritize them. So I need to change my approach when they appear, or change my position or cancel my combo when they cast a geyser. When they disappear for a while I continue on the regular mob while keeping an eye out for them. In 2 Black and Sigma its just regular mob, so you can hack away without worries. Sigma 2 and Black 2 are more straightforward.

But in short they would ofcourse never put Itagaki's vision in the limelight, its an improved version of their own game.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Maybe it's my old ass reflexes or I just forgot how to fight these bosses, but the Hell version of the bosses with the mobs are kicking my butt. Takes more attempts to pass than I remember.
Then I realized that other than my OG Sword, none of the other weapons I'm using have been upgraded

Still the mobs and bosses hit harder than I remember. Almost done and considering either a OG NG2 run or an NG3 RE run. Going to save the NG2 Black Mentor run for after the patch

 

[RPS37]

This is my first Ninja Gaiden game and it’s really cool. Currently stuck on the second boss.

 

[Blood Borne]

I’m halfway through the game on Master Ninja and I’m just breezing through the game with ease.
Making me think if I’m just really good at the game or it’s no longer challenging due to playing more challenging games over the years.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

This is my first Ninja Gaiden game and it’s really cool. Currently stuck on the second boss.

choose that long stick as your weapon of choice, and spam weak, strong, weak, weak, strong combo

you can beat him with both eyes closed

 

[RPS37]

choose that long stick as your weapon of choice, and spam weak, strong, weak, weak, strong combo

you can beat him with both eyes closed

Oh shoot I think I got that one already.
This one is the one at what I think is the end of the second Chapter with Joe.

 

[Timberwolf25]

I know I never did this in the OG NG2, but just out of curiosity after a boss fight, I decided to aim the Bow and Arrow at a certain waifu and shot her with it thinking nothing would happen.
Instead I got a splash of blood on my screen and a death yell from her before a "Game Over" screen. Edit: Did it with the shurikens and that also will kill her Was this in the OG or Sigma versions? Or new to this version?


Didn't get any acheivement for it though

 

[Sub_Level]

This is my first Ninja Gaiden game and it’s really cool. Currently stuck on the second boss.

Weldome to the club bro.

Always be dodging, blocking, or slicing motherfuckers. Always.

 

[Hayabusabruh]

Yeah, Razor's Edge is clearly the better game. It is simply more interesting, challenging and straight to the point.

I completed II Black and this game is an absolute mess. You get excellent gameplay, some great bosses, but you can't have fun more than 5 minutes until you get some shitty platforming, a water section, a shitty giant boss fight, stupid lock on that always changes to a new enemy instead of the one you are about to kill, bow that never locks on the enemies in the distance that shoot at you, and that absolutely abysmal camera. This makes it a chore to play.

Razor's Edge has none of these issues, it is simply a much better game. And you can play the entire game with all characters, with unlocks, this is great. You also get one hidden challenge in each stage, and this is super fun. In II Black, the three stages for the girls are absolute dogshit. Short and recycled content.

But when I say Razor's edge is good all I get is " ". People who mention Constant QTEs are clearly talking about Vanilla NG3. I played NGRE right after finishing NG2B, and it just feels better overall.

 

[Sub_Level]

NG2 Black is the Ninja Gaiden 2 of the franchise.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

Oh shoot I think I got that one already.
This one is the one at what I think is the end of the second Chapter with Joe.

aren't you talking about this dude?

just use the stick, and go weak strong weak weak strong for the izuna drop

 

[RPS37]

aren't you talking about this dude?

just use the stick, and go weak strong weak weak strong for the izuna drop

Ima kick his ass.

 

[Buggy Loop]

0:00 Hardware Lumen (Highest Setting) - Looks the worst... basically broken
0:30 Software Lumen (Highest Setting) - Look shit, but not broken
0:50 SSR Only (lowest Reflection Setting) - Looks shit, but has the least artifacting




and this right here is exactly why I cringe every time I see the Unreal Engine logo these days. "just slap lumen on it" is basically the mantra with this dogshit engine.

Team Ninja seem to have fucked up the bounding volumes for that part

I think overall the Lumen/RT looks good for the rest of the game. Worth it for 95% of the game. Really only a few places in that particular chapter stuck out like a sore thumb

 

[kevboard]

Team Ninja seem to have fucked up the bounding volumes for that part

I think overall the Lumen/RT looks good for the rest of the game. Worth it for 95% of the game. Really only a few places in that particular chapter stuck out like a sore thumb

it looks awful even in the best moments imo.

the screen space pass on top of the Lumen reflections are ungodly awful.

 

[decisions]

lol I haven't played NG in years before Black 2. I played Black 2 on Warrior and thought I was good enough to start Sigma 1 on Hard. I spent like 3 hours in the trapdoor fight trying to figure out how to win it reliably. But the time flew by because the difficulty made the game feel so much more fun. NG1 is goated. And to think Black 1 is even harder than that. Maybe I will just do NG2 Black on Mentor for now since I'm used to that.

Man, I hope that Black 1 and NG2 can see the light of day somehow. Maybe TN will patch an "Itagaki Mode" into Black 2 at some point, but of course that feels like wishful thinking since they obviously don't like his versions of the games.

I'm also curious about how Razor's Edge holds up. I haven't played that since it came out but I remember enjoying it for the most part.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Finished on Warrior. Fun time. Now on to NG3 RE.
Kind of BS that they don't have Itagaki-san in the credit. Only a All Original Ninja Gaiden 2 staff.


Lol, only .72% has beaten it on Warrior so far on Series consoles? Wtf

 

[Celcius]

Just finished the game in a single day, took me 8.2 hours, though I've already completed it several times in the past so it wasn't my first playthrough.
They did a great job on the remake. Looking forward top NG4!

 

[Larsowitz]

Hes rather spot on. He did enemy counts etc, but as he pointed out its not just that. Its also the use of variable enemy types in a skirmish. In the original you will find a few mages among the pack of enemies at the blossom trees. This always forces me to adapt because they are the most deadly and can control the area with casts. They usually stay behind regular mobs, but its best to prioritize them. So I need to change my approach when they appear, or change my position or cancel my combo when they cast a geyser. When they disappear for a while I continue on the regular mob while keeping an eye out for them. In 2 Black and Sigma its just regular mob, so you can hack away without worries. Sigma 2 and Black 2 are more straightforward.

But in short they would ofcourse never put Itagaki's vision in the limelight, its an improved version of their own game.

Good point.

In the original every enemy encounter is carefully crafted with specific enemy types for each environment. This made each fight so unique.

They messed up the whole game balance by taking out so many enemies.

 

[Larsowitz]

it looks awful even in the best moments imo.

the screen space pass on top of the Lumen reflections are ungodly awful.

In mission 3 now and the reflections are really bad.

In general some parts of the remaster look quite good but overall the original looks much better imo. They removed so many details and replaced them with generic unreal engine assets.

 

[FreeY$L]

lol I haven't played NG in years before Black 2. I played Black 2 on Warrior and thought I was good enough to start Sigma 1 on Hard. I spent like 3 hours in the trapdoor fight trying to figure out how to win it reliably. But the time flew by because the difficulty made the game feel so much more fun. NG1 is goated. And to think Black 1 is even harder than that. Maybe I will just do NG2 Black on Mentor for now since I'm used to that.

Man, I hope that Black 1 and NG2 can see the light of day somehow. Maybe TN will patch an "Itagaki Mode" into Black 2 at some point, but of course that feels like wishful thinking since they obviously don't like his versions of the games.

I'm also curious about how Razor's Edge holds up. I haven't played that since it came out but I remember enjoying it for the most part.

I just played Razors edge and honestly, its a travesty. Enemies block incessantly, they take way too much damage, enemy variety is low, too many obnoxious QTEs, no literally, everything is a QTE in this game. This industry was horrible back in 2012.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Razor's Edge has a few good things going for it, like using the other characters in all missions and this actually removes a lot of the QTE. But on the whole its still a bad game, just better than the original NG3 because of the additions. They basically removed some changes exclusive to NG3, and actually added a bunch of things from the previous games such as extra weapons (yeah, NG3 featured only swords) and an upgrade system. Which shows how big of a fail NG3 was to begin with.

But RE is still not good because its the same game at heart. So a lot of boring cutscenes and QTE that break the pacing. Enemies are tanky soldiers for the most part, and very annoying alchemists that just aren't fun to fight at all. And likely the worst bosses in the trilogy.

 

[NorthernSword]

I don't remember this bug on X360, how to trigger it?

It triggers itself. It happens all the time randomly but you would notice it less on 360 due to high levels of projectile spam that locked you down anyway. You can find reddit posts all over of people annoyed like me that 20 years and now the 4th version of the game and it hasn't been fixed.

 

[SkylineRKR]

It triggers itself. It happens all the time randomly but you would notice it less on 360 due to high levels of projectile spam that locked you down anyway. You can find reddit posts all over of people annoyed like me that 20 years and now the 4th version of the game and it hasn't been fixed.

This freeze happens a lot in all NG2 versions. I usually let go of block and jump. Its weird but I never thought its a bug of sorts.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Started NG3 RE and it seems very dark. It's been a long time since I last played it, but graphically it's a step back from OG NG2, at least initially.
I played the first few level of OG NG2 last week, and that game appeared to both cleaner and higher res than NG3 RE.

Going to force myself to finish it this time in preparation for NG4.

 

[RedC]

Started NG3 RE and it seems very dark. It's been a long time since I last played it, but graphically it's a step back from OG NG2, at least initially.
I played the first few level of OG NG2 last week, and that game appeared to both cleaner and higher res than NG3 RE.

Going to force myself to finish it this time in preparation for NG4.

Are you playing the Xbox 360 version of NG3 RE or the Master Collection version?

 

[Timberwolf25]

Are you playing the Xbox 360 version of NG3 RE or the Master Collection version?

X360 version. I don't own the Master Collection

Edit: After you asked I checked to see if was on GamePass. Crap, I should've just installed that instead
Going to do that now. So happy you asked. Also, weird that it's smaller than the X360 version by 1GB.

 

[Timberwolf25]

Beat the 1st Boss in NG3 RE again, but this on the Master Collection version. That Boss battle was meh.
Seems to be the same as the X360 version except for the much higher res as well as the colors pop a lot more.

So far, still getting the hang of the slightly different gameplay, but already don't like the upgrade system in place. I like the gore so far at least.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Started NG3 RE and it seems very dark. It's been a long time since I last played it, but graphically it's a step back from OG NG2, at least initially.

Because it's not BC enhanced like NG2 is.

 

[RedC]

This is a very good and detailed comparison of the original 360 version vs black 2:

I think that's the best way to look at the Sigma Versions and Ninja Gaiden 2 Black as arranged versions of the original.

 

[Celcius]

sigh, for the life of me I haven't been able to get master ninja rank on ch 6
I wanted to unlock Rachael's fiend costume but I guess I'm too casual for the harder challenges...

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

The Tonfas are so fucking awesome, brehs. In the 360 game maybe the Scythe was the star but in Black 2 the Tonfas are king.

Tonfas... vigoorian flail, Lunar and Kurisagama are the best weapons of the game.

My two best are Kurisagama and Lunar

 

[Celcius]

Weirdly, I found myself talking to two people IRL about Ninja Gaiden. I guess the franchise is more popular than I thought!

 

[VenomousCoffee]

Never played NG 2 before (back on the OG Xbox, I played 1 up until the Ghost Fish, whatever chapter that was). Played 2 Black up until Ch 7 this weekend on the For Babies difficulty (I'm almost 50 now), and I'm absolutely loving it--to the point I want to go back and play the others and try them on higher difficulties (as I said, almost 50 now and I mostly play SP games on Easy). Mostly wanted to come in here and say that tearing things up with the Claws is a blast and it's exactly how I want Insomniac's Wolverine game to feel (I'm not hopeful about that, but that's another discussion).

 

[OverHeat]