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[SmokyDave]

That last point makes it obvious that you're a fanboy who would have never considered it in the first place, so your opinion is null.

Can you be a fanboy if you're against something? I haven't argued about videogames since I started shaving but back then, a fanboy was someone that was blindly for something, not against.

 

[mentalfloss]

The DS is a case study in how mass market pricing and value translates into mass market sales.

The 3DS simply hasn't gotten there yet, nor should it. Nintendo was actually very smart to start off at $250. They've sold a respectable amount of hardware while the DS is still selling like bonkers.

The fact that they are easing through this transition means that they actually priced the 3DS appropriately for the market.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Good results for MS, even though they counted the free 360 that comes with laptops.
Infamous 2 is meh. I thought it would sell around 500000 copies.

 

[Mael]

for christ sake, go read Zelda OoT impressions, it has a thread of itself, if you can't see it for youselves.

That's not meant to be my opinion but how the market view it, I did not invent the media running stories about 3DS being harmful to children's eyes.

Can you be a fanboy if you're against something? I haven't argued about videogames since I started shaving but back then, a fanboy was someone that was blindly for something, not against.

The fun part is that I'm actually closer to being a Nintendo fanboy than anything else but hey who cares?

 

[AranhaHunter]

Imagine a new handheld that was able to play a majority of PSN/XBLA games at the same pricing, this is what I'm hoping the Vita will lead us into, a middle ground pricing tier for handheld gaming.

I'm still holding out hope that Vita will be able to play most, if not all, non retail PS3 games on PSN. I know I'm setting myself up for failure, but that's what I want.

 

[Lonely1]

I'll give you that RE:Mercenaries pics looked great, but then the actual game came out and the blatant bullshots revealed themselves as bullshots.

Huh? The game looks like that.

I'm still holding out hope that Vita will be able to play most, if not all, non retail PS3 games on PSN. I know I'm setting myself up for failure, but that's what I want.

Is technically impossible. Unless they port everything.

 

[Jomjom]

Good results for MS, even though they counted the free 360 that comes with laptops.
Infamous 2 is meh. I thought it would sell around 500000 copies.

Even w/o the laptop 360s 400k still killed the competition.

 

[SPEA]

I would say one of the 3DS's major issues is actually the name. The average consumer is confused by DS/lite/i/XL/3DS, and so many people don't realize it's not just a minor hardware upgrade.

I can actually see the same confusion happening over the Wii U later on.

And it doesn't help that 3DS box art looks pretty much exactly the fucking same as the DS ones! So dumb on Nintendo's part.

 

[lowrider007]

I do wonder what's going to happen if Vita comes out and has the PSP standard of battery life in real world circumstances. Just like some people have said "go play Infinity Blade on your iPod touch for five hours, get back to us."

No doubt it will have a similar battery life and I will accept it due to the higher fidelity in graphics and image quality that I will be receiving, my problem with the 3DS is what I'm seeing on screen doesn't translate to the battery power that I'm receiving.

 

[StevieP]

On what planet does lower resolution make development easier? Seriously people, the low resolution is undefendable and is straight up offensive that Nintendo would think that it would pass.

It's the first real mass-market autostereoscopic 3D screen. The resolution is 800x240.

The shit games, the battery life, the price, the eye gouging 3D?

You know, aside from the "eye-gouging 3D" (lol) I don't see how Vita will overcome either of the other 2 issues with its launch hardware. Care to share?

someone said 400K without that some pages ago, I think the source was somethin pachter like, if you are willing to find that.

Are you saying that 400k out of the 500k 360s in the NPD results were free ones? :s

No doubt it will have a similar battery life and I will accept it due to the higher fidelity in graphics and image quality that I will be receiving, my problem with the 3DS is what I'm seeing on screen doesn't translate to battery power that I'm receiving.

You know the battery is feeding 3 screens and a 100% on-time wifi chip, right?

 

[Opus Angelorum]

We need an official statement from Microsoft concerning the additional promotion numbers, I'm reading from a few people that they did not include them.

 

[walking fiend]

That's not meant to be my opinion but how the market view it, I did not invent the media running stories about 3DS being harmful to children's eyes.

it will change after games start selling

Are you saying that 400k out of the 500k 360s in the NPD results were free ones? :s

i think i read someone posting like that here, i take NO responsibility

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Perfect assessment of the situation

Good stuff.

Nintendo (and Sony to a greater extent) are screwed. iOS/Android is going to eat up the dedicated gaming handheld market. Japan will keep it alive to some degree, but with the rest of the world going all in with their smartphones, it won't be enough. Sony must think it is, at least for long enough to make it a success, because they have to be insane to take a loss on that thing when iOS/Android is in the process of destroying dedicated gaming handhelds.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Why in the world would you think that? It's one of the most forward thinking strategies Sony's ever done in the handheld biz.

It just seems like a service without a clear audience. Why would anyone go into Sony's walled garden when they can already get Android content elsewhere or choose Apple's much larger and more popular walled garden? Why would they rebuy PS1 games they already bought on PSN? I dunno, I just don't see who this service is really for exactly?

That doesn't even make any sense. Either buy a $150 DS to play DSiWare or a $250 DS to play DSiWare...hmmm, decisions decisions.

Exactly. Why buy $250-300 Vita again? For Android games you can get on a $100+ phone? For PSN/PS1 games you can get on a $130 PSP? Or HD games you can get on a $200 360?

 

[WrikaWrek]

"I told ya i felt good about where we were"

 

[Lonely1]

No doubt it will have a similar battery life and I will accept it due to the higher fidelity in graphics and image quality that I will be receiving, my problem with the 3DS is what I'm seeing on screen doesn't translate to the battery power that I'm receiving.

What did you expect then? Is not like Nintendo cheapened out in the battery size...

 

[Kai Dracon]

It's the casual burst. A clever gimmick boosting sales. Let's hope Microsoft doesn't get over confident like Nintendo did with the Wii and start using these numbers as signification that they've got the right idea this month when it comes to software, because this year has been a barren one for my 360. But, yeah, look at their E3 this year....yep. Round round we go.

The thing is, this year at E3 there was everything the 360 needed for the actual mass gamer market: 360 is getting the new COD and the new Gears and both look "fucking awesome man!" by the lights of the market they're for.

The overall success of the 360 isn't due to a gimmick or "the casuals". It was observed a little bit earlier in the thread, but the 360 is the first very successful game console to still be treated as "king" by its maker and 3rd parties this far into its lifespan.

Usually, hardware makers and 3rd parties are already taking a dump on the current console by shifting all AAA development forward towards the next, unannounced, successor. Even though 3rd parties are whining for big rig PC graphics, they're accepting the situation and putting their best stuff on the 360. Microsoft is still pushing out full quality Gears of War titles and Forza titles and has an entire new Halo trilogy coming.

This has never happened before; the game has changed. I have to admit, the 360 deserves its success, for not being dropped like a dirty rag the moment its graphics are no longer palatable to the bleeding edge hardcore tech gamer.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

Ohhhhh, that's right, the free laptop promotion.

They advertised the shit out of that thing. I thought about jumping on that deal myself.

 

[szaromir]

We need an official statement from Microsoft concerning the additional promotion numbers, I'm reading from a few people that they did not include them.

I don't think NPD has any way of tracking those 360s unless Microsoft told them the numbers and then they were included in the final results.

 

[Kagari]

We need an official statement from Microsoft concerning the additional promotion numbers, I'm reading from a few people that they did not include them.

Pachter said they're in.

michaelpachter Michael Pachter
@
Good point by @NicolasVerge, the 507k Xbox figure included all of the "free" 360s given away under the Windows 7 PC promotion

I don't think NPD has any way of tracking those 360s unless Microsoft told them the numbers and then they were included in the final results.

They do because they're rung up like a regular transaction and then discounted to $0.00 for inventory purposes.

 

[Mael]

it will change after games start selling.

Or not if there's not enough games, then again DS did turn around from before Mario Kart.

 

[Jomjom]

And it doesn't help that 3DS box art looks pretty much exactly the fucking same as the DS ones! So dumb on Nintendo's part.

Yeah i have to agree ive lost count of how many times ive heard store employees selling the 3ds to parents as a ds with 3d. Ive even heard employees compare it to the ipad with 3g while the ds is like the wifi only model. Of course every time the parents says something like "oh i dont need all the extra features, I'll just get the regular model."

 

[AranhaHunter]

One of the hugest problems I have with the 3DS is the resolution. I've posted this before, but it still boggles my mind that this how this gen is turning out.

I didn't know the PSV had lower resolution than the iphone 4. That's really disappointing, the iphone 5's resolution will probably blow it out of the water....

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I'm not a great believer in Pachter, however I'll accept it for now.

They must be able to track them though if they could only be purchased with a Student ID.

 

[Huff]

We need an official statement from Microsoft concerning the additional promotion numbers, I'm reading from a few people that they did not include them.

I'm pretty sure we will never find out the breakdown, but the 360 most likely would have been the top seller even without the free ones. But the number would probably been between 300 and 400k

 

[Kai Dracon]

No doubt it will have a similar battery life and I will accept it due to the higher fidelity in graphics and image quality that I will be receiving, my problem with the 3DS is what I'm seeing on screen doesn't translate to the battery power that I'm receiving.

Wait.

So the 3DS "fails as a portable" because its "shit battery life".

So battery life of 3 hours is the criteria for a failed portable. This is the song that's been sung from every venue in the last few months.

But the Vita is acceptable as a failed portable because of jawsome graphics.

If this isn't confirmation that the only thing that matters to the hardcore is graphics, I don't know what is.

 

[StevieP]

Pachter said they're in.

michaelpachter Michael Pachter
@
Good point by @NicolasVerge, the 507k Xbox figure included all of the "free" 360s given away under the Windows 7 PC promotion



They do because they're rung up like a regular transaction and then discounted to $0.00 for inventory purposes.

Well there is one way to completely skew NPD results. Give away 400k worth of free systems.

 

[walking fiend]

The thing is, this year at E3 there was everything the 360 needed for the actual mass gamer market: 360 is getting the new COD and the new Gears and both look "fucking awesome man!" by the lights of the market they're for.

The overall success of the 360 isn't due to a gimmick or "the casuals". It was observed a little bit earlier in the thread, but the 360 is the first very successful game console to still be treated as "king" by its maker and 3rd parties this far into its lifespan.

Usually, hardware makers and 3rd parties are already taking a dump on the current console by shifting all AAA development forward towards the next, unannounced, successor. Even though 3rd parties are whining for big rig PC graphics, they're accepting the situation and putting their best stuff on the 360. Microsoft is still pushing out full quality Gears of War titles and Forza titles and has an entire new Halo trilogy coming.

This has never happened before; the game has changed. I have to admit, the 360 deserves its success, for not being dropped like a dirty rag the moment its graphics are no longer palatable to the bleeding edge hardcore tech gamer.

someone tells me why DS is selling 400K while its software never charts. just how many people use flash carts?

 

[chubigans]

It just seems like a service without a clear audience. Why would anyone go into Sony's walled garden when they can already get Android content elsewhere or choose Apple's much larger and more popular walled garden? Why would they rebuy PS1 games they already bought on PSN? I dunno, I just don't see who this service is really for exactly?

I don't think you've seen the state of Android's marketplace. It absolutely needs something like this. And rebuying PS1 games is not part of the suite; the suite isn't available yet.

Exactly. Why buy $250-300 Vita again? For Android games you can get on a $100+ phone? For PSN/PS1 games you can get on a $130 PSP? Or HD games you can get on a $200 360?

Bwahahaha

Cmon man, you're being totally disingenuous here.

 

[Jomjom]

I didn't know the PSV had lower resolution than the iphone 4. That's really disappointing, the iphone 5's resolution will probably blow it out of the water....

Difference is the psv has that awesome OLED.

 

[Wrestlemania]

someone tells me why DS is selling 400K while its software never charts. just how many people use flash carts?

Because there's hundreds of games and they're not all buying the same ones.

 

[Mael]

Wait.

So the 3DS "fails as a portable" because its "shit battery life".

So battery life of 3 hours is the criteria for a failed portable. This is the song that's been sung from every venue in the last few months.

But the Vita is acceptable as a failed portable because of jawsome graphics.

If this isn't confirmation that the only thing that matters to the hardcore is graphics, I don't know what is.

Yeah...no without good battery life it'll fail too, no one gives a shit about a handheld you have to keep on a leash.

 

[Skilletor]

My iPad dies really fast if all I do is play Infinity Blade. I've never timed it, but I don't think it would be much better than the 3DS battery life if I did.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm not sure why the promo numbers are considered a cause for concern.

1) Can other publishers do similar promos? Yes, absolutely. If they choose not to or it's not economical for them, okay, but that doesn't preclude the sales from counting. Like Wii Play; Microsoft and Sony could have sold a $10 game with a controller. They didn't. Maybe if they did they would have done as well, maybe not. But they didn't do it. Doesn't make it not count that Nintendo did.

2) Do other promos ($100 GC, for example) count? Yes, absolutely. And they should. And price drops should. A console sold is a console sold, whether it's at a profit, break-even, as a promotion, or at a loss. We don't say that Sony is cheating by selling the PS3 at launch at an enormous loss. We don't say platform holders are cheating by bundling games with their consoles, or offering holiday promos, or per-game special edition consoles. We don't say platform holders are cheating by cutting their price. All's fair.

If Microsoft thinks it's economically viable to run a promo that sells 200k 360s (assuming 100% of the month-to-month growth is account for by the promo), then that's their prerogative.

I guess my point is that if you're asking "Why is the 360 selling more?", the promo is a good answer. If you're saying "Because the promo was responsible for the growth, the growth doesn't count or isn't impressive or doesn't mean anything", that makes no sense to me.

 

[walking fiend]

I didn't know the PSV had lower resolution than the iphone 4. That's really disappointing, the iphone 5's resolution will probably blow it out of the water....

it won't, ppi is already quite high (323), it won't be usable after this.

I guess my point is that if you're asking "Why is the 360 selling more?", the promo is a good answer. If you're saying "Because the promo was responsible for the growth, the growth doesn't count or isn't impressive or doesn't mean anything", that makes no sense to me.

the point is that this growth won't be sustainable, at least I don't read more than that into it.

 

[Mael]

My iPad dies really fast if all I do is play Infinity Blade. I've never timed it, but I don't think it would be much better than the 3DS battery life if I did.

It's also first...a smartphone, so you can have other uses for it too.
Now the controls on that thing are laughable though.

 

[chubigans]

I didn't know the PSV had lower resolution than the iphone 4. That's really disappointing, the iphone 5's resolution will probably blow it out of the water....

The Vita res is purposely doubled so PSP games can scale perfectly onto the screen.

The iPhone 5 will not have a better resolution unless it gets a much bigger screen. You end up having diminishing returns for what you can fit on screen verses what you can see at one time.

 

[szaromir]

They do because they're rung up like a regular transaction and then discounted to $0.00 for inventory purposes.

OK, I stand corrected.

 

[Karma]

We need an official statement from Microsoft concerning the additional promotion numbers, I'm reading from a few people that they did not include them.

I dont see why it matters at all. Does everyone also want to know how many free PS3s Sony has given away over the years with Bravias?

 

[Lonely1]

I didn't know the PSV had lower resolution than the iphone 4. That's really disappointing, the iphone 5's resolution will probably blow it out of the water....

The iPhone 5 resolution is going to be exaclty the same (as the 4).

 

[AranhaHunter]

Is technically impossible. Unless they port everything.

Weren't you one of the people who were saying it was technically impossible to have PSP BC through software emulation? With that said, I don't expect it, but it's nice to want things

 

[Skilletor]

It's also first...a smartphone, so you can have other uses for it too.
Now the controls on that thing are laughable though.

People like to compare the battery life in iOS devices to a device whose primary purpose is to play games. If you're using them for the same purpose, I believe the battery life is comparable.

 

[Jomjom]

I'm not sure why the promo numbers are considered a cause for concern.

1) Can other publishers do similar promos? Yes, absolutely. If they choose not to or it's not economical for them, okay, but that doesn't preclude the sales from counting. Like Wii Play; Microsoft and Sony could have sold a $10 game with a controller. They didn't. Maybe if they did they would have done as well, maybe not. But they didn't do it. Doesn't make it not count that Nintendo did.

2) Do other promos ($100 GC, for example) count? Yes, absolutely. And they should. And price drops should. A console sold is a console sold, whether it's at a profit, break-even, as a promotion, or at a loss. We don't say that Sony is cheating by selling the PS3 at launch at an enormous loss. We don't say platform holders are cheating by bundling games with their consoles, or offering holiday promos, or per-game special edition consoles. We don't say platform holders are cheating by cutting their price. All's fair.

If Microsoft thinks it's economically viable to run a promo that sells 200k 360s (assuming 100% of the month-to-month growth is account for by the promo), then that's their prerogative.

I guess my point is that if you're asking "Why is the 360 selling more?", the promo is a good answer. If you're saying "Because the promo was responsible for the growth, the growth doesn't count or isn't impressive or doesn't mean anything", that makes no sense to me.

Pretty much this.

Is it going to get someone to buy games? Is it possibly going to get MS another Gold subscriber? If yes, its a sale. A box in a new home is a box in a new home. People complaining about MS "cheating" need to get out of the console war frame of mind.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I dont see why it matters at all. Does everyone also want to know how many free PS3s Sony has given away over the years with Bravias?

Just for clarification. I get the impression that some people believe the additional 200+ promotional numbers shouldn't count.

As Stumpokapow stated, the numbers are valid.

 

[walking fiend]

Weren't you one of the people who were saying it was technically impossible to have PSP BC through software emulation? With that said, I don't expect it, but it's nice to want things

PSV has backward compatibility with PSP using software?

 

[larvi]

We need an official statement from Microsoft concerning the additional promotion numbers, I'm reading from a few people that they did not include them.

Here's my receipt from the purchase I made under this promotion:

www.sammythieme.com/File0120.PDF

You had to purchase the computer and 360 in the same transactions and essentially they discounted the computer by $200. I can't see how this wouldn't be counted as a retail sale of a 360. It wasn't like I bought only the laptop and MS shipped me a free 360.

 

[Lonely1]

Weren't you one of the people who were saying it was technically impossible to have PSP BC through software emulation? With that said, I don't expect it, but it's nice to want things

No, that was Brainstew. My position was that it wasn't trivial (we still don't know how does Sony achieves it) and that the Xperia Play had 0 chance. :3

 

[JWong]

And it doesn't help that 3DS box art looks pretty much exactly the fucking same as the DS ones! So dumb on Nintendo's part.

Can't help it anymore.

To be backwards compatible, they need to keep the dual screen forever.

A lack of foresight from Nintendo.

 

[madmackem]

Well there is one way to completely skew NPD results. Give away 400k worth of free systems.

Where has this 400k number come from?.

 

[nincompoop]

I'm not sure why the promo numbers are considered a cause for concern.

1) Can other publishers do similar promos? Yes, absolutely. If they choose not to or it's not economical for them, okay, but that doesn't preclude the sales from counting. Like Wii Play; Microsoft and Sony could have sold a $10 game with a controller. They didn't. Maybe if they did they would have done as well, maybe not. But they didn't do it. Doesn't make it not count that Nintendo did.

Were the 360's MS is giving away manufactured for the purpose of the promotion? That doesn't sound very likely, it's much more likely that they had a ton of excess refurbished units leftover from the RROD fiasco and needed a way to dump them off. So if this is the case then it wouldn't be feasible for Sony or Nintendo to run a similar promotion.