• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[Reuters] Exclusive-Sony in talks to buy media powerhouse behind 'Elden Ring', sources say

I wonder what people championing for MS aquisitions will say now... I blame MS for starting this race. Fuck this.
Only pros i can think about are increased technical performance for FromSoft games and finally getting a Bloodborne Remaster, but if we dont like MS aquisitions we shouldnt like this either.
Nothing wrong with this purchase as the console is 1 entry point into an ecosystem aka msft view but Sony could be stubborn to change and simply want a temp ps exclusive before going all ecosystems.

It’s their choice as to a strategy to grow their ecosystem.

I was expecting capcom as a comfy multi platform growth aka mindshare/ip growth & mp titles like mh wild fused with gaas.
 

bender

What time is it?
Sony's never ported a From project to PC.

giphy.gif
 

Perrott

Member
Why would From give a shit about Demons Souls anymore? They made Dark Souls as a successor.
... because they don't own Dark Souls and that wouldn't change even after this potential acquisition? On the other hand, Sony does actually own Demon's Souls, so if they were ever to continue with the Souls series proper, then Demon's would be their only alternative.
 
I listed this as one that makes sense but I always think about this as how Sony could have bought them much cheaper. This purchase is effectively to stop MS buying them. I can't see them taking games off Xbox.

Microsoft were never in the running to buy Kadokawa. No corporate synergy and already too overloaded between Zenimax & ABK.

If there were other companies looking into it, it'd be Asian companies like Tencent, or maybe NetEase or even another Japanese publisher for a merger (i.e Capcom, Konami etc.). After the Tango disrespect, I doubt even SEGA/Atlus would entertain an acquisition by Microsoft for a very long time if ever.

But, they'd still be fine with those Game Pass deals 😉😁
 

Metnut

Member
If this goes through, expect a big fat raise (hundreds of millions of yen) for the key players at From. Bloodborne remaster finally. Bloodborne 2. Elden Ring 2. More.
 

nial

Member
It's kinda funny when you see that not only From Software, but Acquire and Spike Chunsoft have developed games for SIE as well.
From Software:
Demon's Souls (2009)
Bloodborne (2015)
Déraciné (2018)
Acquire:
DekaVoice (2003)
Yuusha no Kuse ni Namaiki da (2007)
Yussha no Kuse ni Namaiki da or2 (2008)
Patchwork Heroes (2010)
No Heroes Allowed! (2010)
Rain (2013)
No Heroes Allowed! VR (2017)
Spike Chunsoft:
Trick×Logic Season 1 (2010)
Trick×Logic Season 2 (2010)
 
Last edited:

Antwix

Member
... because they don't own Dark Souls and that wouldn't change even after this potential acquisition? On the other hand, Sony does actually own Demon's Souls, so if they were ever to continue with the Souls series proper, then Demon's would be their only alternative.
Yeah, no shit they don't own Dark Souls. My point is that they could make a new IP like they have done in the past. Name matters not so Demons Souls wouldn't be their only alternative.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
If this goes through, expect a big fat raise (hundreds of millions of yen) for the key players at From. Bloodborne remaster finally. Bloodborne 2. Elden Ring 2. More.
Elden Ring 2 is the game they want to make and are making. There’s absolutely no reason they wouldn’t be. Elden Ring sold rocket fuel numbers. Are we really going to credit Sony with Elden Ring II?
 

Mibu no ookami

Demoted Member® Pro™
Shit. You're not far off.


Sony and Tencent own the remains 30.34% of Fromsoft to Kadokawa's 69.66. Sony took 14.09% in 2022.

If they buy Kadokawa, Sony will own 83.75% of it. Would they yank the rest from Tencent?

Probably not. Tencent would probably still want some amount unless they wanted to reduce for some reasons. Also, Sony & Tencent have shown similar interests in gaming-related investments in the Asian region for some years now, usually buying similar stock rates into various studios or publishers, or similar investments in things like China Hero Project.

Some of that's probably because of Shawn Layden (he works at Tencent nowadays). I'm generally fine with the "soft-alliance" or whatever now because Tencent have been distancing themselves from the CCP, at least as much as a Chinese company can, in terms of some overt political influences.

2. Reverse share split

(for acquirers owning two-thirds or more of the voting rights of the target company)


As a first step, the acquirer (either directly or through a Japanese special acquisition vehicle) launches a tender offer to acquire the target company’s shares. If the acquirer purchases at least two-thirds of the voting rights of the target company, then a special meeting of the target company’s shareholders is held to approve the reverse share split. Upon approval by shareholders owning at least two-thirds of the voting rights of the target company (which threshold includes the shares owned by the acquirer, so passage of the resolution is assured), then the target company can effect a reverse share split pursuant to which the consolidation ratio is set to a level that is sufficiently high to render after the split all (or a targeted number) of minority shareholders with fractional share ownership. Since fractional shares cannot be issued under Japanese corporate law, the sum of the fractional shares are either sold to a third party designated by the target company (typically the acquirer) or are repurchased by the target company itself upon receipt of court approval (which approval is a standardized procedural step as opposed to a potential substantive challenge, and it normally takes approximately two to four weeks to obtain such court approval), and then cash consideration is distributed to the minority shareholder in an amount equal to the quantity of shares owned by the minority shareholder multiplied by the offer price in the first-step tender offer.

While easy to implement, a drawback of a reverse share split is that it may not apply automatically to holders of share options or warrants of the target company (unlike the demand for sale of shares method, as discussed above), so an examination of these instruments will be necessary to determine if a reverse share split is beneficial. On the other hand, a reverse share split can be particularly helpful if the acquirer plans to own the target company with co-investors since the consolidation ratio can be set to a level that will not eliminate the ownership of consortium members.

Considering the time to obtain court approval and to follow the record date, notice period and meeting formalities under Japanese corporate law, the approximate time to complete a reverse share split is normally three to four months.

Less Common Methods to Squeeze-Out Minority Shareholders

If an acquirer purchases at least two-thirds of the voting rights of the target company, squeezing out minority shareholders by way of a cash-out merger (genkin kōfu gappei) or a cash-delivery-share-exchange (genkin kōfu kabushiki kōkan) are other effective methods to squeeze-out minority shareholders considering the Japanese taxation reforms effective from October 1, 2017. However, these procedures are rarely used in Japan because (i) each can be relatively more burdensome if the acquirer directly acquires the target company’s shares (as opposed to acquiring shares through a special acquisition vehicle), (ii) each can cause some tax disadvantages or unintended tax incentives for shareholders to oppose the first-step tender offer in order to be bought-out in the second-step squeeze-out transaction, and (iii) normally neither has any material advantages over the reverse share split method (which method has been widely tested by Japanese courts and considered an acceptable way to squeeze-out minority shareholders, so the reverse share split method adds to deal certainty).

Remedies Available to Dissenting Shareholders

Shareholders who object to a squeeze-out transaction can (i) petition a court to appraise the fair value of their shares, (ii) pursue a legal action against the directors of the target company claiming that they acted in bad faith or with gross negligence when performing their duties (e.g., the directors did not pay sufficient attention to the interests of the minority shareholders), (iii) request an injunction to prevent the closing of the squeeze-out transaction, or (iv) seek to nullify the squeeze-out transaction in its entirety.

An appraisal is the most common remedy selected by dissenting shareholders when challenging a squeeze- out transaction because a dissenting shareholder may realize a direct financial gain if it is awarded an increase in the purchase price for its shares (which economic incentive may motivate a dissenting shareholder to undertake the time and expense to challenge a going private transaction). While pursuing a legal action against the directors of the target company also can lead to financial gain for a dissenting shareholder, such suits are uncommon in Japan due to the high burden of proof that must be satisfied and comprehensive discovery is not available in Japan (so a dissenting shareholder will face an uphill battle to meet its burden of proof to succeed). Seeking an injunction or nullification of a squeeze-out transaction is uncommon in Japan too because neither approach will likely confer a monetary benefit to the dissenting shareholder. In light of the foregoing, this newsletter focuses on the appraisal remedy.

Appraisal Process

A dissenting shareholder must follow certain procedures to exercise its appraisal rights, and the target company can reduce the likelihood of an appraisal award if it follows safe harbor procedures, each as discussed below.

Standing to invoke. To initiate an appraisal proceeding, a dissenting shareholder must not tender its target company shares in the first-step tender offer, and it must comply with additional procedures depending on the squeeze-out method utilized by the acquirer:

  • In a demand for sale of shares, the dissenting shareholder must be a shareholder of the target company prior to the date the target company’s board of directors issues its notification or public notice concerning its approval of the call option exercise by the Special Controlling Shareholder. In addition, the dissenting shareholder must petition a court to appraise the value of its shares between 20 days prior to the effective date of the squeeze-out and the day immediately preceding the effective date of the squeeze-out.
  • In a reverse share split, the dissenting shareholder must vote against the reverse share split at the relevant shareholders’ meeting, deliver a repurchase demand to the target company between 20 days prior to the effective date of the reverse share split and the day immediately preceding the effective date of the reverse share split, and if the target company and the dissenting shareholder are unable to agree on a fair price for the target company shares owned by the dissenting shareholder within 30 days from the date discussions are requested to commence, then the dissenting shareholder or the target company can petition a court to appraise the value of the target company shares owned by the dissenting shareholder.
The purchase price discussions between the target company and a dissenting shareholder in the reverse share split context are held in confidence, so a dissenting shareholder ordinarily will not become aware of the price paid to another dissenting shareholder unless a dispute is brought to trial and a final court decision is published.

Safe harbor procedures. Appraisal cases in Japan were historically treated as non-contentious cases in which courts had reasonable discretion to determine fair value. Some Japanese lower courts made their fair value determinations by analyzing the value of the target company prior to the M&A transaction versus the increase in value to the target company after the M&A transaction. The bifurcation of value analysis exposed transactions to unpredictable outcomes because courts were inconsistent in their valuation methodologies, and some courts even considered the tender offer price as the baseline to determine the increase in value to the target company after the M&A transaction. This baseline approach to valuation exposed going private tender offer transactions to an inherent risk of challenge since courts ordinarily would award a dissenting shareholder an amount equal to at least the tender offer price, so a dissenting shareholder theoretically had little to lose when challenging a transaction (other than time, advisor expenses, and reputation risk). In one fell swoop, Japan’s Supreme Court changed the appraisal valuation rubric in a controlling shareholder going private transaction.
 

ergem

Member
Sony bros saying that we shouldn’t worry as From will operate independently and also calling for mandated change in the same thread.
Eh? I wasn’t aware we should have the same opinion.

Sony should take over From. Cut xbox support but keep PC. Force an adoption of Decime engine for the benefit of humanity.
 
Probably not. Tencent would probably still want some amount unless they wanted to reduce for some reasons. Also, Sony & Tencent have shown similar interests in gaming-related investments in the Asian region for some years now, usually buying similar stock rates into various studios or publishers, or similar investments in things like China Hero Project.

Some of that's probably because of Shawn Layden (he works at Tencent nowadays). I'm generally fine with the "soft-alliance" or whatever now because Tencent have been distancing themselves from the CCP, at least as much as a Chinese company can, in terms of some overt political influences.

On top of that just seems smart to keep a good working relationship with Tencent. From what I understand to do business in China you have to work with a Chinese company.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
If that level of delusion is the bar then Sony stans really can’t talk about the deluded Xbois ever again. It’d be practically pointless to seek any meaningful dialogue from either set of fans moving forward.
Completely agree, I was being facetious of course.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
Eh? I wasn’t aware we should have the same opinion.

Sony should take over From. Cut xbox support but keep PC. Force an adoption of Decime engine for the benefit of humanity.
Forcing people to do what you want always goes well. I’m sure Miyazaki loves to be forced.
 
Very good news! FromSoft can use some graphical and technical help from the master.

As for Nintendo, please hurry up and buy something. Buy Square, Buy Sega, Buy Capcom, Buy Konami, Buy Namco. Buy something. Please. Time is running out. You have as much cash as Sony does. Hurry up Nintendo!!!!!!!!!!
 
Unlike a lot of multi platform games, which struggle to get 15-20% of sales on xbox, Elden ring actually did pretty well, with 30%. So there’s definitely an audience for it there. However, it was both a cross gen game, and was a while ago now. The “nobody buys xbox games, they just get them for free on games pass” phenomenon has really picked up steam in the last couple of years, and the console unit sales divide between xbox and PlayStation has really widened quite considerably in the last couple of years too. So I would be surprised if they would lose any more than at most 20% by choosing not to launch on xbox.

Making it console exclusive, even a timed one would definitely drive some console sales, without sacrificing an uncomfortable amount of sales (some of which they could recoup if they chose to bring it to xbox two years later).

Making from soft games ps5 only tho, if that’s the route they took, would definitely hurt (I doubt they’d do that tho)

No, Xbox didn't get 30% of Elden Ring's sales. You're going off the very early launch period phase; after that the ratio dropped heavily and understandably so given how popular PS4 & PS5 were for the game, let alone PC.

We didn't get lifetime sales estimate breakdowns by platform but I don't think 15%-18 Xbox is unrealistic, considering the sales collapse they started seeing with consoles in late 2022 and onward. PC probably has a slight majority of the remaining sales, maybe at 42%-44%, and PS4/PS5 the remaining 40% or such.

That said, I don't see a scenario where Elden Ring 2 suddenly skips Xbox, especially if the next Xbox isn't even a traditional console, since all rumors suggest something more akin to a PC type hybrid. Which, in that case, it may not get an Xbox-specific build, but would still be playable there via the Steam version. Tho I'd still assume a native Xbox version would come anyway.

Not for the Series S or X, though. More likely for what design spec MS decide to release after those (and these rumors of a 2025 Xbox; if it's not a handheld I'm guessing it'll be a redesigned Series X with more PC-like modularity to test the hybrid design before committing to a 10th-gen APU spec).
 

Pejo

Gold Member
You forget that Steam won't sell Sony games with forced PSN to regions that aren't officially supported by PSN/Sony? There's quite a bigger list than you'd think:

  1. Afghanistan
  2. Albania
  3. Algeria
  4. Andorra
  5. Antigua and Barbuda
  6. Armenia
  7. Azerbaijan
  8. The Bahamas
  9. Bangladesh
  10. Barbados
  11. Belarus
  12. Belize
  13. Benin
  14. Bolivia
  15. Bosnia and Herzegovina
  16. Botswana
  17. Brunei
  18. Burkina Faso
  19. Burundi
  20. Cabo Verde
  21. Cambodia
  22. Cameroon
  23. The Cayman Islands
  24. Central African Republic
  25. Chad
  26. Comoros
  27. Cote d' Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
  28. Cuba
  29. Democratic Republic of Congo
  30. Djibouti
  31. Dominica
  32. Dominican Republic
  33. Equatorial Guinea
  34. Eritrea
  35. Estonia
  36. Eswatini
  37. Ethiopia
  38. Fiji
  39. Gabon
  40. Gambia
  41. Georgia
  42. Ghana
  43. Grenada
  44. Guinea
  45. Guyana
  46. Haiti
  47. Iran
  48. Iraq
  49. Jamaica
  50. Jordan
  51. Kazakhstan
  52. Kenya
  53. Kiribati
  54. Kosovo
  55. Kyrgyzstan
  56. Laos
  57. Latvia
  58. Lesotho
  59. Liberia
  60. Libya
  61. Liechtenstein
  62. Lithuania
  63. Madagascar
  64. Malawi
  65. Maldives
  66. Mali
  67. Marshall Islands
  68. Mauritania
  69. Mauritius
  70. Micronesia
  71. Moldova
  72. Monaco
  73. Mongolia
  74. Montenegro
  75. Morocco
  76. Mozambique
  77. Namibia
  78. Nauru
  79. Nepal
  80. Niger
  81. Nigeria
  82. North Macedonia
  83. Oman
  84. Pakistan
  85. Palau
  86. Papua New Guinea
  87. Republic of the Congo
  88. Rwanda
  89. Saint Kitts and Nevis
  90. Saint Lucia
  91. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
  92. San Marini
  93. Sao Tome and Principe
  94. Senegal
  95. Serbia
  96. Seychelles
  97. Sierra Leone
  98. The Solomon Islands
  99. Somalia
  100. South Sudan
  101. Sri Lanka
  102. Sudan
  103. Suriname
  104. Syria
  105. Tajikistan
  106. Tanzania
  107. Timor-Leste
  108. Togo
  109. Tonga
  110. Tunisia
  111. Turkmenistan
  112. Tuvalu
  113. Uganda
  114. Uzbekistan
  115. Vanuatu
  116. Venezuela
  117. Vietnam
  118. Yemen
  119. Zambia
  120. Zimbabwe
You could argue that you could use VPN tricks or whatever to circumvent this, but that's putting your entire account in jeopardy just to buy Sony games.
 

GHound

Member
Genuinely the only good thing about this whole thing (which may never even come to fruition) is seeing the mental gymnastics as people who were once for acquisitions are now openly panicking and throwing a tantrum in impotent rage. Not because it's happening at all, but because their guy isn't doing it.

What was the war cry again? Oh right, Sega next Wednesday.
 
Last edited:

ShaiKhulud1989

Gold Member
Genuinely the only good thing about this whole thing (which may never even come to fruition) is seeing the mental gymnastics as people who were once for acquisitions are now openly panicking and throwing a tantrum in impotent rage. Not because it's happening at all, but because their guy isn't doing it.

What was the war cry again? Oh right, Sega next Wednesday.
Kadokawa not selling to Tencent is a good news any day of the week, considering that the company was looking for a buyer for quite some time.
 
Supposed this guarantees Sekiro 2 will be full of wokeness. Hip hop side kick and a woman dispensing the missions and no-nonsense advice. That's pretty much the minimum you'd expect in a Sony branded Elden Ring 2. I'd look for product placement too."Nothing helps you traverse the lands between like a Jeep Wrangler GLADIATOR".

For the love of God, go take your meds. Some of you today 🙄🤣

There’s going to be a fucking cottage industry of finding old pro ABK acquisition posts when the Xbox fans start complaining about From games being exclusive to Sony.

Going to? There already is!

This has nothing to do with Elden Ring. They want a monopoly on the anime industry

They want more control of the anime space, yes, but it wouldn't be a monopoly.

They still wouldn't own Madhouse, or 4C, or Studio Perriot, or Studio Ghibli, or Toei Animation, or J.C Staff, just as some examples.

And on the manga side of things, they wouldn't own Shonen Jump, which IIRC is the biggest manga publication in Japan (and probably the world).

Very good news! FromSoft can use some graphical and technical help from the master.

As for Nintendo, please hurry up and buy something. Buy Square, Buy Sega, Buy Capcom, Buy Konami, Buy Namco. Buy something. Please. Time is running out. You have as much cash as Sony does. Hurry up Nintendo!!!!!!!!!!

I don't think Nintendo's interested in buying a publisher anytime soon. But, I can see them buying more ownership in The Pokemon Company and maybe purchasing HAL outright in the future.

More likely, Nintendo'll probably strengthen partnerships with 3P publishers to make Switch/Switch 2-exclusive platform content for 3P ports to their system. You know, as a value-add to their versions of those games (especially if they're late ports), and stimulating double-or-triple dips benefiting the publishers and Nintendo.

And probably one of the most prominent they'd do that with are SEGA/Atlus. Can also see Square-Enix and Capcom getting in on that. Maybe more sporadic with Western 3P, publisher-wise, but they might make the push with more independent studios and even some indies, alongside publishers like Devolver.
 
Last edited:

AmuroChan

Member
Not good at all for pc players if sony makes you sign into PSN because many countries don't have PSN.

Sony will need to continue to roll out native support for PSN in more countries, but in the meantime, we will continue to make do. I'm from the Phillipines. Most people here either just use a US PSN account or HK account.
 

FunkMiller

Member
Genuinely the only good thing about this whole thing (which may never even come to fruition) is seeing the mental gymnastics as people who were once for acquisitions are now openly panicking and throwing a tantrum in impotent rage. Not because it's happening at all, but because their guy isn't doing it.

What was the war cry again? Oh right, Sega next Wednesday.

Anyone cheering for massive, global corporations run by greedy useless executives buying up games developers needs their head examined. It was true with ABK, it’s true now. It will never not be true.
 
Top Bottom