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[The Pleasure]

Something tells me this dude lives in Germany, first name starts with an R, last name starts with an F.

Leave Rowenda Frankenstiner alone!

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Well it's like the lawsuit Apple lost against Epic (and Google still facing). One can argue consoles are computers too - so yea, if this got any traction, we could be looking at the end of consoles in traditional sense.


I am not sure the lawsuit claims dating back to 2016 would quite work if that excuse applied. PSN game gift cards were still sold from 3rd party resellers back then too - I forgot when we lost those - but I was buying PSN DD games (and other cards) from Amazon a fair bit in the last decade.

They stopped issuing those in 2019.

Sony confirms it will stop letting GameStop and other retailers sell PS4 download codes

The policy goes into effect on April 1st

www.theverge.com

 

[GHG]

I don’t have any real dog in this fight but that doesn’t really make sense

the reason we see more price sensitivity as it were from physical games is because they take up space, you get clearances because retailers are just trying to get the games off their shelves/out of their warehouses

Supply/demand is what drive price sensitivity more than anything, that's why prices typically fall pretty linearly with time on PC 3rd party storefronts. The only exceptions are where the game is top tier and as such it can continue to demand higher prices for longer and still sell (see elden ring/sekiro as more recent examples, with Gollum/Redfall being on the opposite end of the spectrum).

Inventory management is the concern of the retailer, not the consumer.

Shows people know fuck all about these things.

The cut they're referring too that would in theory allow developers/publishers to have lower prices on content is the reason PlayStation can invest in content at all. And this is the same for Nintendo and Microsoft.

The cut that manufacturers historically took under SEGA and Nintendo meant developers got closer to 30% back than the 70% they get now. It was even worse because they controlled manufacturing of the cartridges also so developers couldn't try and source cheaper parts to make games cheaper to make.

Sony dropped this fee to 30% with the PlayStation and CD format which made developers a tonne of money and even meant that a game that sold 250,000 copies could be very profitable based on average development costs and team sizes at the time.

I haven't bought this argument from the beginning. Sony didn't make PlayStation to allow Microsoft to put Gamepass and the Windows Store on it, or the Nintendo e-shop, or Ubisoft+ or EA Access or the epic store or steam or GOG etc. and sell their content cheaper, thereby undercutting the platform owner. The very person that allowed you to make that money. Just because Steam can go as low as 10% doesn't mean Sony should allow everyone to have their stores and content for sale on their platform at a cheaper price because they bypass the 30% cut somehow.

This isn't a dominant leader thing either, Nintendo and Microsoft do the same. SEGA did the same before leaving the market. Google and Apple charge 30%.

If the console manufacturers had to allow companies to release their own stores or remove the 30% cut from all third party content and transactions, there would be no point in making consoles full stop. There is not enough profit in Sony first party to allow for the investment PlayStation needs.

Prices globally are very different for very different reasons. £70 is $85 or ¥13,000 JPY. Look at it like that and the UK gets the shit end of the stick. Hell this is one of the many reasons I prefer physical. Apart from certain things I can get my games from many retailers and they can be competitive there.

Microsoft are already removing major third party content from PlayStation in dribs and drabs. You start taking third party revenue away from everyone? You're going to create a huge mess. I have no issues with paying the price for something if I think the cost is justified. If not I just don't pay it. If I cant get what I want in one place I can always go to another. There's competition out there and I'm not forced to buy that product. You can wait till it's on sale. These download keys and codes have already been proven in many ways to be obtained illegally. You'd make a bigger problem from an existing problem.

Sony losing this court case would be an astronomical legal precedent because if Microsoft and Nintendo have to follow suit you'll see a real negative impact in the industry. As I say, Sony reduced the cut to 30% when they came into the industry in 1994 and it's been commonplace in many industries since. This would be a real can of worms.

If they want to go after the 30% cut then the only people that will benefit are the publishers. We've seen enough evidence of that on the Epic Games Store. The Lower cut has not resulted in lower prices for the consumer, if anything some of the worst offenses in terms of new game pricing take place on that store.

There are games you can buy digital codes for PSN from different retailers too. There were even playstation humble bundles in the past so it must be possible in some form also, it just isn't done regularly like with steam. But just like steam it is locked to their ecosystem and they take a cut. Steam doesn't let developers generate unlimited keys and sell them on a third party site without taking their cut too.

The codes you are referring to were once part of bundles. There is no way for publishers/developers to voluntarily generate keys for their Playstation games that can then be distributed and sold outside of PSN.

 

[demigod]

It's not Sony's job to protect retailers though.

Digital game prices should be just as price sensitive as physical games are.

Sony are protecting themselves from potential lost revenue. Imagine retailers buying bulk stock of games just to be undercut by digital. Now they have a bunch of physical games they can’t clear unless they are willing to lose money on. This will have an effect on them from buying future physical games and Sony would be losing money out on.

Edit: and actually they are protecting retailers. If they didn’t, the Best Buy pass would still be a thing.

 

[Portugeezer]

What a waste of tax payer pounds.

#notMyTaxPayerPounds

 

[Evil Calvin]

Buy digital games on sale then...........

 

[CobraAB]

Sony facing $7.9 bln mass lawsuit over PlayStation Store prices

Sony must face a mass lawsuit worth up to 6.3 billion pounds ($7.9 billion) over claims the PlayStation maker abused its dominant position leading to unfair prices for customers, a London tribunal ruled on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

Do these people have aa gun to their head making them buy shit?

 

[akaFullmetal]

I would welcome being able to buy games other than the ps store digitally if that is what this leads to.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

It's OK. I hear with ABK that Microsoft will be the market leader now. That should make this all go away.

 

[Mownoc]

The codes you are referring to were once part of bundles. There is no way for publishers/developers to voluntarily generate keys for their Playstation games that can then be distributed and sold outside of PSN.

Buy EA Sports WRC PS5 / PS4 PSN DIGITAL - ShopTo.net

Buy cheap £39.85 EA Sports WRC PS5 / PS4 - PSN DIGITAL (UK) ✔️Shop EA Sports WRC PS5 / PS4 ✔️Instant Delivery 24/7 ✔️Fantastic price ✔️Digital ✔️Finance Options Available

www.shopto.net

This is what confused me. Turns out it's just a wallet code for £45.

However I don't believe some of the humble bundle codes were ever in console bundles. But that was a while back.

 

[GHG]

Sony are protecting themselves from potential lost revenue. Imagine retailers buying bulk stock of games just to be undercut by digital. Now they have a bunch of physical games they can’t clear unless they are willing to lose money on. This will have an effect on them from buying future physical games and Sony would be losing money out on.

Edit: and actually they are protecting retailers. If they didn’t, the Best Buy pass would still be a thing.

Not necessarily. In my previous post I referenced games that didn't fall off a cliff in terms of pricing on the PC side of things, even when exposed to having their keys be sold across third party digital storefronts. The one thing those games have in common is that they are fantastic and are actually worth full price.

Now that I think of it, maybe that's why publishers haven't taken any issue with this being the case on console storefronts. Keeping digital prices artificially high for most of their games is beneficial to them, so they are happy to be complicit in this cartel.

 

[Generic]

If they want to go after the 30% cut then the only people that will benefit are the publishers. We've seen enough evidence of that on the Epic Games Store. The Lower cut has not resulted in lower prices for the consumer, if anything some of the worst offenses in terms of new game pricing take place on that store.

Not true, Epic has better discounts than Steam and GoG.

 

[LordBlodgett]

I think the only reason this lawsuit is happening against Sony and not Nintendo or Microsoft is that you can still buy digital download codes for both of those and not Sony. This does force you to buy directly from the Playstation store no matter what. If they were still selling digital codes I'm not sure if this wouldn't be almost immediately dismissed.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Is this because they don't sell digital game codes you can buy elsewhere like xbox and steam? I'm stumped tbh

 

[GHG]

Not true, Epic has better discounts than Steam and GoG.

Go here and sort by historical low.

Game deals - Find video games on sale - GG.deals

Compare prices of video games from almost 60 stores, find the best game deals online. CD keys for all PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo Switch and PC games on the market at the best price!

gg.deals

The results might surprise you.

And for what it's worth, the discounts involving coupons are funded by Epic themselves, not the publishers. The publishers have not lowered their prices on the storefront despite the fact that their margins have increased.

 

[Fafalada]

The codes you are referring to were once part of bundles. There is no way for publishers/developers to voluntarily generate keys for their Playstation games that can then be distributed and sold outside of PSN.

Not sure how key generation worked - but the codes were absolutely sold for arbitrary games (no bundles) all the way up to 2019 (see just above your post).

Exactly, I did expand on my post but decided to not post it, but I essentially said if this wins out then there is nothing stopping them going after Microsoft and Nintendo (even though they say the console market is only Sony and Microsoft)

I mean much as I have no love lost for Epic over anything they do - they were the key player in opening this floodgate, but yes - if legal precedent gets upheld against consoles, Nintendo and MS will be next in line - 100%, doesn't matter who litigates it.

Mobile phones are computers too, so where would that leave Google and Apple?

Apple already lost that battle (though I guess they're still appealing).
Google technically allows side-loading apps and even app-stores, though IIRC they still control payment gateways - so that battle still needs to be fought.

 

[Clear]

Well it's like the lawsuit Apple lost against Epic (and Google still facing). One can argue consoles are computers too - so yea, if this got any traction, we could be looking at the end of consoles in traditional sense.

The entire point of a console is it that its a device used to play proprietary software. There is zero expectation of it being a general-purpose computing device, and the underlined is the key part.

This is as bulletproof legally as it gets; even more so than mobile phone stores which offer general purpose computing function as a secondary selling-point and so there's a crack for argument based on the fact that phone-apps can offer any sort of function completely separate from that which the device is sold for.

What's more, every other product in the device class "game console" works exactly this way, and has done so since the 1970's! So exactly how behaving the same way that all its competitors do and have done for the last 50 years is somehow instrumental in them "abusing their position" is a pretty good question!

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The entire point of a console is it that its a device used to play proprietary software

But here is the thing - you can play same games on multiple platforms. Some of the games are not available on some platforms but that - essentially - does not make it different from PC stores exclusives (inability to play AW2 in Steam for example).

By and large, I expect consoles to eventually merging with a bigger pc (and handheld market) becoming one. And 30% will go away sooner or later - for Nintendo it does not even matter than much anymore as they sell mostly exclusive games with 100% cut.

 

[iHaunter]

All digital games should be $10 less than retail since there's no distribution.

 

[Klosshufvud]

I think it's absurd that these companies are able to basically hold a monopoly in the digital space. MS has tried multiple times doing that with Windows aswell but failing. It's way overdue that modern consumer laws are also applied to modern means of distribution.

 

[Topher]

I think it's absurd that these companies are able to basically hold a monopoly in the digital space. MS has tried multiple times doing that with Windows aswell but failing. It's way overdue that modern consumer laws are also applied to modern means of distribution.

Most games can be bought from PlayStation, Xbox or Steam. Many others can also be bought from GOG or Epic. I don't see how there is a monopoly in the digital space considering the amount of competition.

 

[CobraAB]

LEts hope it goes through and they get walloped, greedy cunts

Then they go out of business and no more Playstation.

WIN!!!!

 

[CobraAB]

Maybe instead of paying high prices, maybe don’t buy then.

What a concept.

 

[Clear]

But here is the thing - you can play same games on multiple platforms.

The same IP and branding and content does not make a game materially the same. Its different on a code level and needs to interface with the host platform's proprietary OS and hardware! A Nintendo build of a game made using a multi-platform engine like Unity or whatever is wholly useless on an Xbox or a PC despite offering the same basic experience and USP's, which is why they are specifically identified and marketed as being for a particular platform or OS.

The bottom line is how do we know what sort of device we need to play a certain game or use a certain application? We -as end users- need to be told! Especially if its distributed digitally because there's no physical thing to examine.

"Being told" essentially boils down to the product being licensed by the platform holder and thus allowed to display their proprietary branding. Which in turn gives them absolute control over what and who is allowed on their system.

It feels to me that a huge hinge-point is the way that web-access factors into the equation. If on one-hand your platform promises full access to the WWW then it follows that everything within it should be accessible, even stuff the platform holder has a vested interest in keeping out!

This is probably why PS5 notably does not offer browser functionality. Because bury that, or take it away completely, and it's extraordinarily difficult to side-load anything that the platform holder doesn't control (and monetize). On the other hand, don't do that, and prominently feature the browser capability like smartphones do, and it gets harder to excuse why third-party storefronts aren't supported.

The reality is how would this third-party storefront ever operate on PS5? The browser is buried, any kiosk application has to be first certified by Sony, downloaded via their storefront, from CDN's they control to get around that. Then the app itself would need to operate externally whilst simultaneously meshing with the PSN back-end for licensing and updates... Even if legally demanded, Sony could kill any competition stone dead before it ever got started!

 

[Klosshufvud]

Most games can be bought from PlayStation, Xbox or Steam. Many others can also be bought from GOG or Epic. I don't see how there is a monopoly in the digital space considering the amount of competition.

The same way the EU high court deemed Apple's App Store a monopoly and forced them to allow alternative stores. Only a matter of time before it happens to consoles aswell.

 

[graywolf323]

The same way the EU high court deemed Apple's App Store a monopoly and forced them to allow alternative stores. Only a matter of time before it happens to consoles aswell.

that won’t be a good thing

 

[//DEVIL//]

Amend that complaint and include claims for the new cost of PS+ essential. Absolute rip off and kind of forced on us mid generation because of their dominant position.

That alone should be a lawsuit to be honest. fucking thieves. 100$ CAD to play online on your console every year !! fuck off.

my playstation will never be a PS+ member ever. stop making single player games only and I will sell my PS5. as a matter of fact I do not want to give Sony any money to the point I do not even buy games day one. just used off someone else. this is how much I do not like the company when it comes to management.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

That alone should be a lawsuit to be honest. fucking thieves. 100$ CAD to play online on your console every year !! fuck off.

my playstation will never be a PS+ member ever. stop making single player games only. as a matter of fact I do not want to give Sony any money to the point I do not even buy games day one. just used off someone else. this is how much I do not like the company when it comes to management.

100% . This needs more visibility, the scumbags at Sony also stopped offering promotions for Essential users (In Canada at least) you could only take advantage of a small discount if you choose to upgrade to the other two tiers.

 

[Clear]

The same way the EU high court deemed Apple's App Store a monopoly and forced them to allow alternative stores. Only a matter of time before it happens to consoles aswell.

Very, very different scenario. Unlikely to happen for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The argument makes no sense. The prices are industry standard. Lawyers grifting.

 

[mrmustard]

Big companies are greedy and slogans like 'for the players' are a not true? I'm shocked!

 

[Thirty7ven]

But it's not. With Steam you can purchase pretty much every game sold on the platform without actually doing so on their storefront.

Game deals - Find video games on sale - GG.deals

Compare prices of video games from almost 60 stores, find the best game deals online. CD keys for all PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo Switch and PC games on the market at the best price!

gg.deals

That isn't the case on Playstation and people should welcome the opportunity to have more options when it comes to how and where they purchase their digital games.

This I agree with. Let me get my shit from cdkeys.

 

[Mr.ODST]

What is it you can do with Xbox outside of buying gift cards for specific games?

You can buy games on key sites etc.

For Xbox in key sites i got:
Call Of Duty MW 3 - £35
Lords of the Fallen £40
Fifa 24 - £40
Mortal Kombat 1 £40

Total for day one for each game: £155

Included in each purchase was points to my account cor further discounts for example Alan Wake 2 is £40

There is no way to do this in PSN as they block third party sellers so it would of cost me around £260 for the same games …

Edit: not including also day one games on Gamepass

 

[Topher]

You can buy games on key sites etc.

For Xbox in key sites i got:
Call Of Duty MW 3 - £35
Lords of the Fallen £40
Fifa 24 - £40
Mortal Kombat 1 £40

Total for day one for each game: £155

Included in each purchase was points to my account cor further discounts for example Alan Wake 2 is £40

There is no way to do this in PSN as they block third party sellers so it would of cost me around £260 for the same games …

Edit: not including also day one games on Gamepass

Ok. I do think the gray markets are more of an unintended consequence of allowing keys into the wild, but I guess that's a fair point either way.

 

[Mr.ODST]

Ok. I do think the gray markets are more of an unintended consequence of allowing keys into the wild, but I guess that's a fair point either way.

I love my PlayStation but I’m finding more buying third party on Xbox cause i save £20-30 each time plus PlayStations refund policy is awful.

Forgot to add i got AC Mirage for series X at £25

 

[Topher]

I love my PlayStation but I’m finding more buying third party on Xbox cause i save £20-30 each time plus PlayStations refund policy is awful.

Forgot to add i got AC Mirage for series X at £25

Gotta find the best deals. Definitely get that. I'm almost entirely getting PlayStation games from Gamefly these days.

 

[splattered]

"I don't like the price of something, therefore it deserves a lawsuit".



I terms of RRP's? He's correct.

The issue that is highlighted in the OP is the fact that Playstation customers don't have the option of getting keys for games from 3rd party storefronts, the pricing itself isn't the problem here.

I dunno have you seen the Black Friday sale on psn vs Xbox and other brands?

 

[GHG]

I dunno have you seen the Black Friday sale on psn vs Xbox and other brands?

And that's got nothing to do with what I said or the context of the discussion.

 

[lh032]

yawn....this same shit again?

 

[Hip Hop]

Still a better deal than Bungie

Bungie catching a stray lol

 

[splattered]

And that's got nothing to do with what I said or the context of the discussion.

Wasn't meant to. I'm just frustrated by their crappy sale. Several things I was hoping to pick up end of year... Hopefully they do a big end of year sale and it's better.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Prices are ridiculous as is them charging for upgrades for games(even though TLOU 2 is better priced this time around)

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

I’d be happy if in retail keys and physical were priced the same. E.g. all games made available physically at 3rd party retailers are offered at the same price digitally. Give consumers the option and have some retail competition for digital games.

 

[Ozzie666]

Related or not, I don't know. But companies used to claim digital sales were priced higher to protecti brick and motor stores. There is really no excuse now for Physical copies to be cheaper than digital prices. But also, does Sony control what other companies charge for their own games? Maybe I am misunderstanding this entire law suit. DLC and Addons aren't the only thing being impacted here.

 

[HarryKS]

Although I understand why they think they can't, I also disagree with paying the same price for a digital version of a game as I would for a hard copy of a game. It is convenient for me, but not as convenient as it is for the publisher who doesn't have to deal with distribution costs.

 

[ByWatterson]

LOL. K.

 

[phant0m]

Not true, Epic has better discounts than Steam and GoG.

i'd rather pay more to not deal with their trash software.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Related or not, I don't know. But companies used to claim digital sales were priced higher to protecti brick and motor stores. There is really no excuse now for Physical copies to be cheaper than digital prices. But also, does Sony control what other companies charge for their own games? Maybe I am misunderstanding this entire law suit. DLC and Addons aren't the only thing being impacted here.

Charge whatever they want through ps store or Xbox store but let retailers sell the same games digitally too. Win / win

 

[Trogdor1123]

Therye in third though now so clearly not dominant.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Company charges what it wants for their own online store, to sell their own products. The shock. The horror.
Don't let physical die. Case closed.

About this:

She says the company abused its dominant position by requiring digital games and add-ons to be bought and sold only via the PlayStation Store, which charges a 30% commission to developers and publishers.

Isn't it standard? I mean...when you buy retail products (physical copies) don't they also get a part of each sale?

That said i do think digital games should be sold in more stores than just each console's store.