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[Ricky_R]

It isn't hard to think of those things. I've always wondered what characters would be thinking while I was playing games. I liked to make up stories for stuff like Street Fighter and side-scrolling shooters when I was kids since I never had the instruction manuals.

I mean lots of books and movies are completely unrealistic but they still deal with complex emotions. The world can be fantastical while the characters are slightly grounded.

Well, I have imagination, and the thought of a gaming character actually being a mass murderer has never even crossed my mind. To even go outside of the video game experience and put that character in perspective of what should be right or wrong in real life, is kinda ridiculous IMO.

If it was that easy, I think It would've glanced my mind, at least.

 

[Mr.Green]

Final updates to the Hall of Fame.

Oh. My. God.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

Nice job. This post is thread worthy.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

this thread is just foreplay to the OT

 

[Square Triangle]

Back at 94 with 48 reviews

aahhwwww shett

 

[LowEndTorque]

It would be easy to give the guy credit for his 8.0 score, based on the content of the review.

However his deadspace2 review, 9/10, shows that he has the ability to see a games linearity for what it is, and enjoy the experience...

Then theres a brink 8/10, which just boggles my mind totally. I don't believe that he isn't aware of the stigma of "flopping" a game, I don't believe that he truly thinks its an 8 either. Its there for the controversy, and everyone here is falling for it.

Oh snap. The same reviewer gave DS2 a 9/10?

Well I guess any credible defense for his "UC3 is linear: 8.0" score just went out the window then =P

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Jaffe annoys me sometimes, but damn is this good stuff (of course except for him indicating that nothing in Uncharted 3 is "bash worthy," but whatever).

This is SO key to this thread:

I read that as meaning nothing in UC3 is egregiously bad, hence worthy of criticism so harsh as to be categorized as bashing.

But yeah, good piece by Jaffe.

 

[Darklord]

Anyone post this? Giantbomb actually made an article over the Eurogamer review. I bet it was because of GAF. haha. http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-a-mostly-positive-review-becomes-controversial/3764/

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Oh snap. The same reviewer gave DS2 a 9/10?

Well I guess any credible defense for his "UC3 is linear: 8.0" score just went out the window then =P

One could always argue that "UC3 is linear" is an oversimplification and mischaracterization of his criticism in the first place.

 

[zoukka]

Well I guess any credible defense for his "UC3 is linear: 8.0" score just went out the window then =P

It's been discussed a million times already in this thread, that he didn't think linearity was a bad thing. There are a lot of stuff inside linear progression that can be done right or wrong.

But I guess someone has to fight reason on every page of this thread :b

 

[Cruzader]

Ranking went up to 94?! Praise the lord!

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

It's been discussed a million times already in this thread, that he didn't think linearity was a bad thing. There are a lot of stuff inside linear progression that can be done right or wrong.

But I guess someone has to fight reason on every page of this thread :b

Well it would not be fun if someone does not fight that review on every page

 

[Tylahedras]

Wow that Eurogamer review was really solid. And from my time with Uncharted 2 I totally get the whole "movie game" mention and why they might find that shallow.

Spoiler

Come at me son

Spoiler

I like movie games remember Blood Stone? I love it

 

[LowEndTorque]

Anyone post this? Giantbomb actually made an article over the Eurogamer review. I bet it was because of GAF. haha. http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-a-mostly-positive-review-becomes-controversial/3764/

David Jaffe and Giant Bomb staff have both been lurking in this thread confirmed.

I wonder who else is lurking around in here? =p

 

[SykoTech]

Eyeballing Metacritic....good times. Still, can't complain about funny gifs.

 

[zoukka]

David Jaffe and Giant Bomb staff have both been lurking in this thread confirmed.

I wonder who else is lurking around in here? =p

Hard to say, but my guess is they all are packing and quitting the industry.

 

[Kaako]

David Jaffe and Giant Bomb staff have both been lurking in this thread confirmed.

I wonder who else is lurking around in here? =p

Errrybody n they mamas. DUH...

 

[Boombloxer]

You on crack, lots of people criticized GTA for exactly that, and nobody would think Ryu and Marcus weren't mass murderers, but they were both fighting a war with aliens/demons.

Nowhere near the amount of shit that Uncharted gets. And it's still bullshit.

GTA still works as a crime story, which is all it should be taken for. Niko wanting to escape didn't change his actions, as it works with most crime stories.

Point stands. The disconnect complaints are basura. If you don't like killing things, this is the wrong genre for you as most games with guns involve that. There's exceptions, but usually, when you see an armed guy, the assumption is clear.

So no, this disconnection isn't in every game.

Even if I took the Tomb Raider example, it's like feeling bad that you had to kill a T-Rex when it was trying to eat you.

For most action games? Please.

 

[Neuromancer]

Anyone post this? Giantbomb actually made an article over the Eurogamer review. I bet it was because of GAF. haha. http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-a-mostly-positive-review-becomes-controversial/3764/

I don't really understand this line:

There was reason to assume Uncharted 3 was going to be pretty great. Naughty Dog’s track record is solid, and Uncharted 2: Among Thieves was so spectacularly impressive that you mostly felt bad Naughty Dog’s designers, programmers and artists had to follow it up all over again.

What does that mean?

 

[flabberghastly]

The cognitive dissonance that I identified in your post is that an industry dedicated to entertainment shouldn't deride or diminish escapist fun in the form of games like Uncharted. It's an absolute contradiction.

That's not cognitive dissonance, but rather a disagreement between our opinions. You think that because this industry is dedicated to producing entertainment that it shouldn't deride or diminish escapist fun. You leap from the is to the ought, and pretend I follow you while holding differing opinions, contradictory to the leap I've supposedly already made. I, however, have a more nuanced opinion than you've indicated awareness of in your responses, one that is not in contradiction with anything else I've said.

So your motivational drive to reduce that blatant conflict is that you wished that the aim of this medium/industry was more than the pursuit of that simple escapist fun. It already is. You just need to look further. Just like in any entertainment industry/medium.

And where did I state that it isn't? In fact, to the contrary, I even stated explicitly in the material that you quoted:

What I'm critical of, however, is the way in which this industry and its reviewers are skewed towards certain forms of entertainment, while others are left emaciated or simply unexplored.

Thus, I can recognize that video games establish a context of entertainment within which feelings, such as fun, can be elicited, but the production of fun in and of itself need not be its ultimate point or purpose. I don't "deride or diminish escapist fun," so much as I demand that we recognize that it is only one such feeling that can be elicited within this context of entertainment; moreover, as far as I'm concerned, it's most certainly not the most important feeling that can be elicited within this context. You can disagree with this final opinion if you'd like, but it provides me no cognitive dissonance in the end.

 

[zoukka]

I don't really understand this line:

What does that mean?

He wanted the artists to move on? I'm not saying they'd even want to, but that's what he means I think.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

I don't really understand this line:
What does that mean?

I think they mean that Uncharted 3 cannot surpass Uncharted 2, since Uncharted 2 was so good.

 

[Papercuts]

He wanted the artists to move on? I'm not saying they'd even want to, but that's what he means I think.

It's saying that UC2 was a hell of a game to follow up, and they had their work cut out for them to try and top it.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

One could always argue that "UC3 is linear" is an oversimplification and mischaracterization of his criticism in the first place.

Undoubtedly. People are completely missing his point and are taking it quite literally and missing the context.

 

[Mlatador]

In a parallel universe far far away...


At *The Eurogamer Score Contest*

Eurogamer: "Hello everybody, this is Eurogamer!"

...: "3 min of throwing points at games"

Eurogamer: "And 8 points go to.... UNCHARTED 3: Drake's Deception!"

*Everybody cheers*

 

[Darklord]

I don't really understand this line:
What does that mean?

I think he means they put such a high level of technical polish on it, it was very hard to one up that in the sequel. NaughtyDog even said how hard it was to make that water level.

 

[deepbrown]

He wanted the artists to move on? I'm not saying they'd even want to, but that's what he means I think.

Nah he means he feels sorry that they have to try and top it.

 

[Neuromancer]

He wanted the artists to move on? I'm not saying they'd even want to, but that's what he means I think.

I think he means they put such a high level of technical polish on it, it was very hard to one up that in the sequel. NaughtyDog even said how hard it was to make that water level.

It's saying that UC2 was a hell of a game to follow up, and they had their work cut out for them to try and top it.

I think they mean that Uncharted 3 cannot surpass Uncharted 2, since Uncharted 2 was so good.

Ah. OK. It's kind of a weird thing to say though. Why should I feel bad for any developer that made a successful game (well except in crazy Team Bondi/sweatshop situations)? Anyway I digress, back to the thread. What's the current Metacritic?

 

[Patapwn]

2 pages of drama, 80 pages dedicated to analyzing the drama...

Where the fuck is the OT at?

 

[LowEndTorque]

In a parallel universe far far away...


At *The Eurogamer Score Contest*

Eurogamer: "Hello everybody, this is Eurogamer!"

...: "3 min of throwing points at games"

Eurogamer: "And 8 points go to.... UNCHARTED 3: Drake's Deception!"

*Everybody cheers*

You don't need a parallel universe for that, it's happening right here in this thread =D

There are already tons of people in this thread who are cheering the 8.0 and their hero Simon Parkin.

That's basically the entire jist of this thread: Half the people are cheering their hero and champion of journalistic integrity Simon Parkin and half want him dead =p

 

[Gvaz]

In a parallel universe far far away...


At *The Eurogamer Score Contest*

Eurogamer: "Hello everybody, this is Eurogamer!"

...: "3 min of throwing points at games"

Eurogamer: "And 8 points go to.... UNCHARTED 3: Drake's Deception!"

*Everybody cheers*

That's what happened IRL actually

 

[Ricky_R]

I don't really understand this line:

What does that mean?

I think he means that he's not too sure about what does "Desperate times" means.

ba dum tish... *scarce applause*

 

[beast786]

Ah. OK. It's kind of a weird thing to say though. Why should I feel bad for any developer that made a successful game (well except in crazy Team Bondi/sweatshop situations)? Anyway I digress, back to the thread. What's the current Metacritic?

Its a figure of speech. You are not suppose to literally feel sorry. its a compliment of how high the standard is set by ND themselves.

 

[Uno Venova]

EG is getting so many extra clicks because of this.

 

[Dever]

Anyone post this? Giantbomb actually made an article over the Eurogamer review. I bet it was because of GAF. haha. http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-a-mostly-positive-review-becomes-controversial/3764/

The only review of UC3 I had skimmed was Giantbomb's, but this convinced me to read the Eurogamer review in full. It's a solid, well-written review that definitely makes a good point I hope ND listens to. It really is the single biggest flaw in Uncharted games, but I don't see how ND could fix it without significantly changing the formula.

 

[SolidSnakex]

The only review of UC3 I had skimmed was Giantbomb's, but this convinced me to read the Eurogamer review in full. It's a solid, well-written review that definitely makes a good point I hope ND listens to. It really is the single biggest flaw in Uncharted games, but I don't see how ND could fix it without significantly changing the formula.

Which is why they shouldn't change anything. There isn't anything wrong with games like Uncharted existing.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Yeah, time-frame for glorious OT? I am ready for a new thread.

 

[AgentChris]

Which is why they shouldn't change anything. There isn't anything wrong with games like Uncharted existing.

ND should make a open world Uncharted with linear missions for PS4.

 

[RooMHM]

So you don't play sequels basically?

I do but I don't like what I see. I'd love to see things I haven't already played a hundred times. ORIGINAL things yknow? And yes, even in sequels.

Why do you think in a binary way? Uncharted doesn't have to be open world but why woldn't it be better if it was more opened (multiple choices, paths, some exploration, ...) ?

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

2 pages of drama, 80 pages dedicated to analyzing the drama...

Let's stop with this sort of thing. The fact of the matter is this; fanboys flipped out, posted stupid shit, were outed by Mama Robotnik, then subjected to a merciless barrage of hilarious and well-deserved mockery by a great many GAF members.

 

[Mlatador]

some guy named osama gave it a 9/11

 

[spats]

Yeah, time-frame for glorious OT? I am ready for a new thread.

Has to be a matter of hours.

 

[krameriffic]

Why do people obsess so much over the Metacritic scores on games here? Do you really need some website to tell you whether or not you like the game? Or is it some competition? Some need for confirmation that the game you like the best has the highest score?

 

[plagiarize]

EG is getting so many extra clicks because of this.

and? i'm sure IGN are getting many extra clicks because of their reviews too.

i'm not going to guess what kind of a point you were trying to make by pointing this out... i'm asking you.

what's your point?

 

[Ricky_R]

but I don't see how ND could fix it without significantly changing the formula.

Exactly, and they shouldn't change it when it has been accepted pretty well among critics and gamers. That formula is precisely what the fans love about the series.

The only option is to prolong the basic gameplay more so that set pieces don't feel like they're plaguing the game and expand the environments to a point where it feels "open" without removing linearity.

 

[badyu17]

Gamespot review is out

 

[darkwing]

Let's stop with this sort of thing. The fact of the matter is this; fanboys flipped out, posted stupid shit, were outed by Mama Robotnik, then subjected to a merciless barrage of hilarious and well-deserved mockery by a great many GAF members.

what about those who flipped over the IGN review? and commented on Greg's marriage

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

What bugs me about Jaffe's article is he seems bitter about the attention "experience" games get over his own. He also lumped MW in with the "gamey" games... well yeah, for MP, but not SP.

What happened to the world being excited about all games? I'm anticipating UC3 while holding my dick, but I'm also enjoying the piss outta Costume Quest. "WHAT! Someone plays cinematic games AND gamey games??"

Err, I guess he's just upset at people being upset about a score for a cinematic game. Oh well... wasted post.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Exactly, and they shouldn't change it when it has been accepted pretty well among critics and gamers. That formula is precisely what the fans love about the series.

The only option is to prolong the basic gameplay more so that set pieces don't feel like they're plaguing the game and expand the environments to a point where it feels "open" without removing linearity.

This (the bolded) is always true because it's circular logic.

Sometimes fans don't know what they'd like better, and obviously ND (or any creator) can't keep doing exactly the same thing. Even fans get bored when the object of their fandom doesn't evolve.

What bugs me about Jaffe's article is he seems bitter about the attention "experience" games get over his own. He also lumped MW in with the "gamey" games... well yeah, for MP, but not SP.

What happened to the world being excited about all games. I'm anticipating UC3 while holding my dick, but I'm also enjoying the loss outta Costume Quest. "WHAT! Someone plays cinematic games AND handy games??"

Err, I guess he's just upset at people being upset about a score for a cinematic game. Oh well... wasted post.

Jaffe isn't bitter, but he is coming from a place that he has spoken about before. He prefers gamey games and wants to make gamey games. He likes the review because it illuminates some of the challenges inherent in making cinematic story games and balancing the story told through cinematics/non-interactive content and the mechanics of the game.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

what about those who flipped over the IGN review? and commented on Greg's marriage

Personal attacks against Greg? Yeah, fuck whoever said that. But making fun of the IGN review? What's wrong with that? It's, well, shit.

 

[plagiarize]

Exactly, and they shouldn't change it when it has been accepted pretty well among critics and gamers. That formula is precisely what the fans love about the series.

The only option is to prolong the basic gameplay more so that set pieces don't feel like they're plaguing the game and expand the environments to a point where it feels "open" without removing linearity.

one way, albeit one that would require a lot more work, would be to have it so that the scripted sequences could play out in different ways. ie, you have two or three versions of the same scenes. not necessarily in a branching fashion but in a swap in and out fashion. it's still essentially plays the same, but it feels less linear. give the player subconscious choices every now and then, and have gameplay scenarios scripted for whether they went up the stairs or down the corridor.

but i understand why almost no one ever does this, because so few people would see all the work you'd put in. polishing ten hours of linear gameplay is a lot easier than polishing thirty hours of gameplay that each player will only experience ten of.

i don't think however that every game has to appeal to everyone. the audience that don't mind this 'issue' are clearly large enough for the franchise to be a success. that doesn't change the criticism from being true of course, nor should it gag people from voicing it when it continues to be the case in subsequent sequels, but since most gamers and reviewers won't mind (i know i won't), i'd rather ND catered to the wider audience than the smaller one.

i'm pretty sure they can stomach getting the odd eight out of ten from a handful of reviewers much more readily than some of the people in this thread seem to be able to.