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[Plague Doctor]

Boy, shaming people into desired behaviors sure isn't as efficient as it used to be!

Yeah. It wasn't even effective 6 to 8 years ago. The difference was back then they could weather any storm with cheap interest rates on loans and wacky ESG initiatives. There was still some restraint by the company heads but then the activists hired similarly minded people and cancelled people in power that disagreed with it. They had twitter and other social media putting their finger on the scales to silence any dissent. More and more people got pissed.

And then the bill for these overly costly vanity projects came in... people aren't buying. The market for these games is so very small for the money and time invested.

and here we all are.

There is no clean solution and really the natural course of events is companies will crash and burn like Ubisoft, some will transition (no pun intended) and some AA's will rise who still compose their corporate culture with meritocracy and proven track records making games for their audience first and foremost. Even turning off a small number of expected consumers, like 5%, isn't financially viable. They need as many people as humanly possible to buy in and then get more people than that. The budgets are that fucking big.

What is happening now and in 2025 is the desperate death rattle of this shit. And shit will get vicious from them.

But... Ubisoft isn't going to be the only victim in this bumpy realignment.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

"Needs to see themselves in their work."

That sure sounds like narcissism to me.

 

[Complistic]

Ignoring the trans, binary crap. The dialogue looks like weird edgy gen z crap how teenagers talk to each other. When the game originally was supposed to be set in a dark medieval fantasy world.

Harding says "Heya" to you as you walk up to her. I think Taash says "Sup" a few times also. Absolutely bizarre stuff like that everywhere.

 

[CityHunter1981]

No one says that it’s wrong to bring your own experiences in your art, but if you try to push strongly your own agendas with your art, that is wrong.

 

[cormack12]

It's just funny when they say they want to be taken more seriously. Basically transplant what you're trying to do in a video game and imagine it in any of the biggest streaming TV shows and just think if it would go down well. Even shows like rings of power have lines and they still fail!

Imagine pulling a barv in game of thrones, or yellowstone.

 

[Mikado]

Some devs seem to forget is that this isn't a Fine Arts Degree thesis project; it's about producing financially-viable product for the Consumable Entertainment Industry.

The end goal is ultimately to convert man-hours and American Dollars into more American Dollars.

mfw when I see studios closing left and right while stating "Our approach is to be as hostile as possible to the demographic that's subsidized this industry for the last 45 years or so":

 

[Neilg]

In an alternate world the costume designer on the godfather movies got to demand representation and have an insert character where one of the mafiosos spent 10 minutes talking about his difficulty with coming to terms with who he was.

 

[clintar]

If that's the attitude you come into this with, then your diverse team can buy as many copies of your art as you want. I don't think there is a risk of it being sold out, so knock yourselves out.

 

[Barakov]

What is happening now and in 2025 is the desperate death rattle of this shit. And shit will get vicious from them.

But... Ubisoft isn't going to be the only victim in this bumpy realignment.

 

[kiphalfton]

The people at bioware act like they're the ones funding the game themselves.

Clearly they're not, so they need to just STFU.

 

[PisswasserYellow]

I think these types are truly surprised by the lack of support they get for their games because they only communicate with others of a like mind. Normal people see the dialog in a game like Veilguard and cringe because it's like, "who the fuck communicates like this?". And I think the answer to that is people whose personalities are derived completely from their gender and/or sexuality. What most of us are laughing at because it seems so forced and fake is actually how these people communicate.

 

[GymWolf]

If Tassh’s design was good at least, but no. I genuinely hate looking at that thing. Every time it appears on screen, I recoil with revulsion. That’s how unsightly it is.

You would hate her even if she was beatiful, she is absolutely unsufferable.

 

[Boss Mog]

So basically modern western devs are making games for themselves, to signal their virtiue. It doesn't surprise me since narcissism is a trait these people have in abundance. Not sure that's gonna work too well for them in a capitalistic system. Eventually the Blackrock DEI money will run out and companies will go bankrupt, like Ubisoft is going to. But maybe that was the plan all along.

 

[ZehDon]

At face value, I don't think they've said anything that controversial. Of course an artist will be reflected in their works; one could even argue that an artist should be reflected in their works. What else is art except an artist's own expression? The issue with this kind of statement comes when you take a closer took at what that might mean in this context. Because we're not talking about an artists work in isolation, such as a painting or even an interpretive dance. This isn't one person's work, nor is it passive. We're talking about an interactive experience created by a team of hundreds predicated on player expression. In this context then, by saying "I need to be reflected in my work", the artist is saying "I must be reflected in your expression". This creates an artist-centric expression model for the player, where the player can never express an opinion that the artist might disagree with because the artist must be reflected. From the way the player is allowed to look, to the way they're allowed to play, to the things they're allowed to say; this type of "player expression" is the developer saying to the player: "you're free to do whatever you like, as long as it's something I like". Given this logic, the franchise in question, and the studio they work at, I'm not really sure why this person was allowed to direct much of anything, frankly. They only seem interested in forcing players to agree with them. A more subtle approach would be a dialog box that reads: "How beautiful do you think I am?" with the options "Extremely" and "Very".

 

[baphomet]

I'm interested in seeing this non-binary dragon bitch they have on staff.

 

[Esppiral]

It is cool that your Devs needs to see them reflected (among their ideology) in a videogame, but don't expect me to want to see it or buy your game then, when they are pushing indoctrination I didn't ask for and I don't want to pay for either.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Yeah. It wasn't even effective 6 to 8 years ago. The difference was back then they could weather any storm with cheap interest rates on loans and wacky ESG initiatives. There was still some restraint by the company heads but then the activists hired similarly minded people and cancelled people in power that disagreed with it. They had twitter and other social media putting their finger on the scales to silence any dissent. More and more people got pissed.

And then the bill for these overly costly vanity projects came in... people aren't buying. The market for these games is so very small for the money and time invested.

and here we all are.

There is no clean solution and really the natural course of events is companies will crash and burn like Ubisoft, some will transition (no pun intended) and some AA's will rise who still compose their corporate culture with meritocracy and proven track records making games for their audience first and foremost. Even turning off a small number of expected consumers, like 5%, isn't financially viable. They need as many people as humanly possible to buy in and then get more people than that. The budgets are that fucking big.

What is happening now and in 2025 is the desperate death rattle of this shit. And shit will get vicious from them.

But... Ubisoft isn't going to be the only victim in this bumpy realignment.

What is really interesting to me is how long this goes for. It’ll never 100% go away esp since random indie games can always do it even if the big corporations do a 180.

Everyone should know that 2023 and for sure 2024 has been a big 180 back. Companies are getting rid of DEI, a lot of movies and games bombing or made fun of.

So how many more years of veilguardy stuff is in the hopper which the studio can’t turn back ax it’s too late.

It’s probably another couple more years needed to flush it all out from the big companies.

 

[Gaiff]

You would hate her even if she was beatiful, she is absolutely unsufferable.

Maybe so, but if you’re not gonna be nice, at least be pretty.

 

[Paasei]

Trying to create a game for everyone leaving out so many things that it’s essentially for no one.

This game, even aside from the messaging/agenda, already looked mediocre at best. I think this game has many problems it needed fixed or altered to be actually good/fun.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Trying to create a game for everyone leaving out so many things that it’s essentially for no one.

This game, even aside from the messaging/agenda, already looked mediocre at best. I think this game has many problems it needed fixed or altered to be actually good/fun.

I don’t even play DA games.

But even I could tell from the super bright graphics, Fortnitey box cover and no NPC control it would already be in a tough slog to appease DA fans. Those are big 180s to visuals and gameplay.

The political messaging ices it 10-fold. Some of those memes people post are so crazy I thought it was fake first time I saw it. Push ups thing.

 

[kindaGoth]

Okay, so everyone who chose not to buy the game is wrong. I’m not sure how this takeaway serves you as a game director though.

 

[Randall365]

Nobody would have cared that much if it was new IP. Take an existing one with a load of fans and twist it all to your vision and you will take some flak. It is absolutely obvious.

For example, if I wanted to tell a story about the horrors of war and try to push people to be pacifists, I wouldn’t try to attach myself to direct the next COD.

I loved Inquisition and would have bought this. The game director had his own agenda and wrecked the game for a number of potential buyers - end of story.

 

[PeteBull]

Capitalism is sorting this problem out, people will either make things people want to buy or they will go bankrupt

It's just taking a really long time because a lot of these media companies are so big and powerful now and control the thoughts of so many people

Yups, thats the reason they all are wokeists, and hate many parts of capitalism(not ones that make them rich ofc;p), in communism they would simply enjoy cenzorship of players views that we couldnt even warn other ppl of how shitty and disgusting those games are.

 

[Paasei]

I don’t even play DA games.

But even I could tell from the super bright graphics, Fortnitey box cover and no NPC control it would already be in a tough slog to appease DA fans. Those are big 180s to visuals and gameplay.

The political messaging ices it 10-fold. Some of those memes people post are so crazy I thought it was fake first time I saw it. Push ups thing.

Pretty much what I thought about this game after laying my eyes on it from the first gameplay showcases.

 

[hyperbertha]

Hypocritical. Most players don't feel like they belong here anymore dude. You are catering to the minority, and excluding the majority. You are creating the problem you claim to be fixing

 

[GymWolf]

edit

 

[xrnzaaas]

Wait a few months and the devs will be reflecting themselves in the mirror in the unemployment office.

It's always funny when a big studio greenlights a project which alienates a large part of the existing community and then ends up shocked when that products ends up being a spectacular fail.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

How many bombs before Bioware is completely gone?

 

[DJ12]

Everyone deals with mental illness differently, I imagine there's a ton of trans people that don't even like this game and this person's messaging.

I imagine this is just an attempt to get its story out there for when EA comes demanding all this crap be removed and never added to another game they make.

"Look at the twitter response, 3 others feel validated by my story"

 

[SF Kosmo]

Well there it is, folks. When EA finally reveals the game's sales figures, it's gonna be all your bigoted incels' smear that wronged the gracious game!

Do you think that the anti-woke panic around this game affected sales or didn't affect sales? Genuinely unclear which narrative you are trying to go with.

 

[StereoVsn]

The unfortunate thing here is that the people thinking and saying this crap now moved on to next ME game. I can already foresee the train wreck.

 

[KungFucius]

Well it is actually bigoted to hate something because it represents something real to one of the creators. As part of the overall content in the game, it is a largely skippable, tiny fraction of the whole thing.

I find people who think these things are agendas to be delusional and making it all about themselves. To get angry and act like you are being attacked because someone you have nothing in common creates something that includes the things you do not have in common with them is a sign of something broken. Normal people don't get upset about things like this.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Pretty much what I thought about this game after laying my eyes on it from the first gameplay showcases.

It looked like shit even from that initial reveal trailer where they showed off the characters with no gameplay. (That trailer got ratio’d to hell BTW). You know, the one with all the wacky Fortnite characters and quippy Marvel dialog.

You can tell they really panicked after that, because all their subsequent press releases and trailers tried so hard to convince gamers that it’s actually the dark and gritty DA we wanted.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Well it is actually bigoted to hate something because it represents something real to one of the creators. As part of the overall content in the game, it is a largely skippable, tiny fraction of the whole thing.

I find people who think these things are agendas to be delusional and making it all about themselves. To get angry and act like you are being attacked because someone you have nothing in common creates something that includes the things you do not have in common with them is a sign of something broken. Normal people don't get upset about things like this.

The need to self-insert in your work is a clear sign of mental illness. Call it fragility, narcissism, dysphoria or whatever you like. Good (actual) creators don't do that. Could you imagine Tolkien or G.R.R Martin self-inserting themselves as protagonists in their books? For millennia, writers have created amazing characters whose lives and personalities don't relate to them. This egomaniacal bullshit needs to stop.

 

[Camreezie]

Stop making games targeted at the 0.1%

 

[tkscz]

Once again a naive narcissistic west coast based game developer believes that games should be an art project and not a product of entertainment. Going on about how anyone who didn't enjoy their work is some sort of bad person as if their overly simplified, boring to play, horribly written, broken world of a game is some sort of social credits test that gives them the right to judge people.

You can put your own experiences in the game but you then also have to understand that not everyone cares to experience your experiences. Not only that but your experience shouldn't take precedence over the enjoyment of the game. And don't call a game accessible if accessible means so easy the game tells you how to win before you even enter the room with the puzzle. Where there is little to no strategy to fights. Why experiment with a system when you can brute force everything.

I can go on about the awfulness of this game but it's not like they'll learn. They'll chalk it up to me not liking trans people or some shit to make me look like a lesser person and ignore the fact that, that was never a complaint I had about the game.

 

[missiles]

It is possible to use your life experiences creatively and to inform new ways of doing things - as an example, the way Miyazaki was inspired to create summoning from his experience of anonymous strangers helping to push cars out of the snow. You need to examine and develop these life experiences into something that's enjoyable and adds something to your game. That takes experience, artistry and vision.

Veilgaurd bought absolutely nothing to the table and didn't elevate the genre or franchise at all. There aren't any interesting new mechanics or creative touches that make you feel like you're playing something distinctive that progresses the series in a meaningful way. It felt like the writing and direction of the game had nothing to say. There was no "hate campaign". People just weren't interested because you had nothing to offer, and what was there was either unlikeable or bland.

 

[nnytk]

We live in a divisive world, in chaotic and uncertain times. It's understandable that the new DA game performed as bad as it did. I think it's unfair to blame this on the culture war. The game just wasn't good enough, especially when compared to the first DA.

There is also an abundance of distractions and high quality entertainment out there. As a game developer you really need to have vision, stand out, integrity, bring something special to the table. The Veilguard just didn't deliver.

 

[rkofan87]

I 100% agree if you want to make a work of art for yourself then you should be able too.

However on the flipside since your marketing it as a product I have the right to not buy it and make sure that you understand that this is a direct consequence of you doing that.

I think the person who wrote this is a little fucking naïve when it comes to products, at the end of the day I have the money and choose what to spend it on, the fact so few decided to spend it on yours despite being a well established IP should be telling you something.

this 1000% make what you want but do not get butthurt when some hate it

 

[PendekarRajawali]

We want good games not your agenda.

 

[Paasei]

It looked like shit even from that initial reveal trailer where they showed off the characters with no gameplay. (That trailer got ratio’d to hell BTW). You know, the one with all the wacky Fortnite characters and quippy Marvel dialog.

You can tell they really panicked after that, because all their subsequent press releases and trailers tried so hard to convince gamers that it’s actually the dark and gritty DA we wanted.

Don’t think I’ve seen that. But it seems I can be happy about that. I saw the first gameplay and that was enough for me.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I'd hate to be a shareholder of these types of companies.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

I think these types are truly surprised by the lack of support they get for their games because they only communicate with others of a like mind. Normal people see the dialog in a game like Veilguard and cringe because it's like, "who the fuck communicates like this?". And I think the answer to that is people whose personalities are derived completely from their gender and/or sexuality. What most of us are laughing at because it seems so forced and fake is actually how these people communicate.

This. I've said this before, gender and sexual preference is NOT an identity. There is nothing deep about it, you don't deserve special treatment because of who or how you like to fuck. The content of your character is what matters, your skills and how you treat the people and the world around you. I could give a fuck less if my plumber, mailman or mechanic is gay as if I'm suppose to treat them differently from any other human being. Are you a decent and honest person? Can you get the job done? That's all that matters in my book.

 

[Rubim]

We live in a divisive world, in chaotic and uncertain times. It's understandable that the new DA game performed as bad as it did. I think it's unfair to blame this on the culture war. The game just wasn't good enough, especially when compared to the first DA.

There is also an abundance of distractions and high quality entertainment out there. As a game developer you really need to have vision, stand out, integrity, bring something special to the table. The Veilguard just didn't deliver.

It's unfair to think otherwise.

Do you really think tgat the bland dialogue, making sure you can't offend anyone.

Making an assassination clan that kidnap children's only kill tyrants, or and thief guild that don't do cultural appropriation, they only steal from abandoned places.

The gameplay is there, the issue is that nobody cares about the world.

It's basically a Life is Strange with good combat.

 

[simpatico]

They get to see themselves reflected in the failure of this game. But rather than learning a lesson they will go deeper down the victim hole and decide that the game they made was great and the outcome was because the all-powerful chuds decided to destroy it.

 

[Singular7]

No one says that it’s wrong to bring your own experiences in your art, but if you try to push strongly your own agendas with your art, that is wrong.

I would argue its not wrong, its just a bad business decision if your customers reject that strong agenda. The free market is a beautiful thing though, they can push their agenda, and we have a choice whether to buy/support that agenda or not.

 

[dDoc]

Just man up and fuck off

I do not think Busche wants to do that in particular.

 

[Plague Doctor]

How many bombs before Bioware is completely gone?

Good question.

Bioware is the Kathleen Kennedy of gaming.

Maybe the studio lead has blackmail material on Andrew Wilson. He looks like a villain from some cyberpunk game after all.

 

[knguyen]

Hate campaign? WTF is this dude smoking?since when consumers voting with their wallets is "Hate campaign"?

 

[Last Hearth]

I agree, but it's crazy how it's taken so long already. The western videogame industry will nearly go bankrupt before self-correcting.

Remember one of the people at SBI specifically said his goal was the burn the gaming industry to the ground, so everything is according to plan.