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EGM/1UP steals the blood and sweat of hardcore gamers?
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
- Start date
FortNinety
Member
Matlock said:
Well obviously you don't give a shit about your own writing, but regarding you not caring enough about 1up seem bullshit to me...
Matlock said:
Matlock said:
Matlock said:
Matlock said:I don't understand how if one of the editors talked to Richard Li about it (happened), why an appended bit couldn't be added to the end within a few minutes (didn't happen).
Of course, both that and what went on in this thread are for the legal team of Ziff Davis to split hairs over, not a random jackass on the internet.
After thinking about the situation even further, and seeing that Richard Li is an editor himself I honestly can't fathom how something like this could happen. I learned in first grade to cite my reports when needed, surely someone writing for a big 3 gaming site learned it too.
(although it seems he's a cheats editor, which has a different set of standards, but jeez, poor form)
Matlock said:
Matlock said:
Matlock said:Basic structure of thread:
<GAF> 1up stole from this place!
<che> valiant attempt at damage control
<GAF> YOU ARE A BAD MAN
<che> fuck it
We've learned two important things here when it comes to scandals such as these:
1. Don't waste time damage controlling shit someone else in your company may or may not have done. People will hate you for it if you don't do it right, and usually tends to escalate things.
2. Refer to 1. There's a reason most companies tell you not to say shit about things within the walls of your employ.
Let me step back for a minute, to a question that was asked back on page 1:
Agent Dormer said:
The thing is, my thoughts on 1up was taken from a bigger exchange, between myself and a girl who had some issues with 1up politics. Again, taken out of context, I don't see what the point of quoting that passage was.
Now Matlock, as for your issue with me reporting things I've read on message boards (primarily the GAF) for my blog site, granted I didn't credit sources in the very beginning, because to be honest, I had like ten people reading my site. But once I realized that more people were reading it, and not just friends, plus I was getting more paid work, I felt it best to start crediting sources, despite the fact that most people still don't give a damn (comic book types don't know what the hell a GAF is, nor do they care). Though then again, news doesn't necessarily originate from the GAF or any message boord; they are primarily responsible for spreading it.
For example, if I had gotten a news item from forum member A, he may have actually gotten it from forum member B via a different forum, or news site or maybe a magazine. The video game news is quite fluid, anyone who's been on GAF for any deal of time and with half a brain already knows this, and its often hard to properly credit, so you'll have to excuse myself and even other, more established media outlets for not directly stating the precise source (which is a forum member who goes my some alias such as "StarfoxFighter" instead of Bob Smith). There's been times when I've "reported" something, and then it appears as "news" for some other site, or even in the pages of EGM. Do I create a huge stink about it? For fuck's sake, no. Sometimes I'm just happy with the knowledge that I knew about such-and-such first (as well as have friends or colleagues who know this fact as well... I'm not one of those fucking egotists who has to let everyone know that I was discovered some great internet fad, I have better shit to do). Besides, how do I really know that if EGM prints something I previously reported, that they got it from me in the first place? The web's pretty fucking huge you know, with tons of people "discovering" the same shit at the same, or sometimes, differing times.
Plus when you consider what I consider to be "news", which is basically some stupid site that has animated gifs that reveal the finishing moves of some Sega CD fighting game, and how my blog isn't exactly a news site to begin with, with advertising and the such, I have to wonder what the hell your problem is.
Now, if I had ever stated information from a source that I didn't credit, and the person or organization had a problem, I'd do whatever it takes to make the disgruntled party happy. But no body has really cared. Why? Because once again, I do a shitty little blog which most people don't know about (which might I suggest you get a blog yourself since you seem to have diarrhea of the mouth... in words). Same as if someone is taking stuff from my site... if I did care, at least to the extent that you seem to, I would have taken care of such business personally, instead of making some public spectacle.
Oh wait... I forgot.
Matlock said:
So yeah, Matlock, defender of the grand GAF kingdom, you're going a fine job of keeping the peace and administering justice. Kudos to you.
Alright... I feel stupid for even pursuing this matter. And after all is said and done, I still don't hate you Matlock. So if you ever see me online, feel free to instant message me your latest joke on my whatever crappy game your reviewing so you can really stick it to that horrible little girl's game which you totally hate having to play.
Joseph Merrick
Member
This thread is awesome.
WasabiKing
Member
Hey big dummy, what publically-owned video game news mediums spend a good chunk of their time reading and posting here, an independent fan forum of gaming? Yes, all of them. (I see the logs, don't deny it industry heads! :lol j/k) And 1up is the first to actually give GAF some sort of credit, whether if it was in blog from its writers or article format. Even temp-to-fire hacks for other mediums ripped from us and never gave us credit, until being prodded.SnowWolf said:
1up's has been good to GAF. I don't need to go into full details, but they have contacted us several times about issues that affect GAF, all cordial. In fact, I'd venture to say that some folks at 1up actually take GAF seriously. *cue owl pictures*
You also have to look at the other side. Every other hack is bitter cause they don't get paid to write about video games, so they get jealous. People write reviews in hopes of getting some sort of review copy so they can shuttle it off on eBay once their review is complete. And you people saying Richard Li needs to get fired are the same hacks who will submit their resume as soon as that move occurs.
And don't get me wrong, I'm not defending what Richard did. But if you take a step back and look at everything, did this move hurt 1up financially in any way? Does it destroy the credibility of 1up to the majority of its readers? Not likely. Richard won't lose his job. Rather than throw him under the bus, Che stood up for his writer, and then he apologized for it after he was wrong.
If anything, this will remind all of us to be careful where we get our info, to properly cite the source, if they want to be revealed, and be wary of consequences of not doing so.
Fire put out
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
If we're going to bitch about 1up plagiarizing, why not take on the entire industry? How can Bungie feel good about themselves after basing their greatest success on the work of others? Not defending 1up, but really... their actions really just mirror the industry they cover.
Ghengis Cohen
Banned
You will have to qualify that you realize.AltogetherAndrews said:
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
not at all, there are definite lessons from this to be learned and i believe 1up will learn from them. I certainly don't think a video game strat article is worth firing someone over. If anything, and this is going to sound like horrible spin, the outcome of this has probably helped DOACentral and what the aim to do.
1) DOACentral get the credit they deserve , everyone gets to go and check out their site and see what advice they have to offer and can learn more about DOA. DOAC then get to spread the good word about the games they are devoted to.
2) Rich Li and 1up now get treat with suspicion. I dunno - everyone has been all over 1up for a while now, they are probably the best thing about video game coverage at the moment.... and now with this one incedent a whole host of people seem to be on this moral high horse about standards , comparing the incident to professional news coverage and calling for someone to lose their job. My faith in the GAF community was always touchy, but now i think a host of people here are absolute, 100% shit for brain cocksuckers. (i'm not including you in that, i'm just saying....).
Rich was in the wrong to not credit his internet sources, for absolute sure, he created a good guide partly helped by other websites. He should have his wrists slighly slapped and should apologise and thats the end of it. Futhermore, the guide provided was of ACTUAL use to a total noob like me. I'm sure DOAC does have all the info, but i've yet to find any single location where everything is collated for a n00b into one easy document.
Okay, it's my opinion and it may seem that i'm making light of it, but at the end of the day this is non-profit video game reporting. It's not the New York Times, it's not CNN, they aren't taking your money for the content, etc etc... The "crime" was not crediting, 1up have acted responsibly and resolved the situation together with DOACentral and VPai. No one needs to be fired. The case is closed.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I like this post. And shouldn't this thread (finally) die now? Jesus.WasabiKing said:
Non-Profit? :lol Oh that is rich. They might not CHARGE YOU for access to the site but it is FAR from being a non-profit organization. Might want read up on what defines a non-profit business. Not that it should have any impact on someone taking others content and not properly crediting their source.
http://www.redcross.org/copyright/
See even Non-profits care about copyrights and protecting their name and information.
P.S. The full page ad-intervals when logging inito their site should be hint #1. Assuming you just totally missed the lack of .ORG in the URL
VeryHungryCaterpillar
Member
APF said:
Jumping in here.
That is the perception. The appearance is there.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
yeah, non-profit was a bad choice of words. what i meant was the cost to you is nothing. I was also meaning it in reference to the comparisons to major news organisations copying others, which is a million miles away from this in terms of scale!
True, it shouldn't affect taking others content without prior notice and approval and subsequent credit, but it should temper people calling for people to lose their jobs. Seriously, people are acting like they've been morally wronged by 1up.
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
Billy Rygar said:
The Halo reference? Gladly. Halo "borrowed" so much from other sources that it's not even funny. I shouldn't even have to list the Aliens references as they should be blatantly obvious to anyone who has played Halo and seen Aliens. The Ringworld idea is nothing new, and the rest were just mildly imaginative reinterpretations of the classic doomsday device and alien invasion themes.
Now, that's ok though, because that's the nature of the industry (although given the many references to the work of others, I wonder how they are going to handle the movie). It just feels rather odd that people would chastice 1up for following the example set by the industry they cover.
DCharlie said:
Don't disagree with you there. It is in very poor taste to ask for someones job, especially when you are not one of the parties involved. He screwed up and to their credit corrected the mistake. I will eat crow on that end since I figured they would brush it aside. Hopefully this incident will remind game journalists to be more carefull in the future, otherwise face the wrath of forums and /.'s everywhere.
Perception isn't reality, and really this is a digression. However, IMO and in general, most people who distrust the news media do so because a) they feel relatively powerless and are therefore more prone to believe in paranoid conspiracy think, and b) they increasingly want the media to share their own biases, and are hyper-aware of any deviance along those lines (thanks, hyperventilating blogosphere!). WRT video games, you have to be aware of how much a running joke this is; how many times on GAF--or any games board--do people scream about biases when, f/e, their game of choice gets a seven rather than an eight? Oh noes, it's teh biased! it's teh monee hatz!VeryHungryCaterpillar said:
Note: that doesn't mean the news media is perfect--it isn't, especially when it comes to things like fact-checking, which you assume would be their #1 priority--but that, in turn, does not mean it's a field that's disproportionally dishonest, whatever that really means.
AltogetherAndrews said:
Which is why I sometimes like to say fuck the industry.
Then again I generally say fuck everything, but hey...
BTW, I don't think this thread would've generated nearly as much fuss if that whole ethical writeup/chat up/discussion under the EGM/1UP/Ziff Davis/whoever the fuck's banner was used had never taken place. All that did was create a stones/glass houses scenario that was eventually gonna have people lash out at them louder then normal. It happens all the time in every facet of life, so don't act like 1UP is being hard done by here.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
Shinobi said:
Exactly, that's how I see it too. If you're going to give us that holier-than-thou lecture, better make sure your house is all clean.
chinmonster
Member
SnowWolf said:
Do I need to quote myself?
EGM is a separate entity with separate writers, and the editorial was on a completely separate topic. And once again, this was the fault of the ONE author, not the entire staff. This could happen to anyone.
And it's pretty ironic to me that a GameDaily staffer is even mentioning editorial integrity after the 1up/DOA interview.
Wow. It's pretty blatant that this writer used DoAC's fan forum guides almost to the letter in various sections of the 'guide' at 1up.
Did this writer not attend high school? How could such a thing happen unless it was sheer ignorance/stupidity? If I was caught doing this in one of my college classes, it'd be grounds for some serious shit. Yeah, it's just a guide, but the fact is, someone spent a lengthy amount of time to create something that he wanted to. Are you saying you wouldn't be pissed if somebody copied your work and didn't give you credit for it? Sure, it's corrected now, but this is gaming journalism at it's worst.
Not to sound offensive or anything, but this kind of stuff makes me respect gaming journalists less and less.
Did this writer not attend high school? How could such a thing happen unless it was sheer ignorance/stupidity? If I was caught doing this in one of my college classes, it'd be grounds for some serious shit. Yeah, it's just a guide, but the fact is, someone spent a lengthy amount of time to create something that he wanted to. Are you saying you wouldn't be pissed if somebody copied your work and didn't give you credit for it? Sure, it's corrected now, but this is gaming journalism at it's worst.
Not to sound offensive or anything, but this kind of stuff makes me respect gaming journalists less and less.
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
I3rand0 said:
:lol
Ok, that's actually pretty funny
SaggyMonkey
Member
chinmonster said:
So when we constantly see EGM writers on the 1up show, on the same floor, in the same building, freelancing for 1up.com, blogging on 1up.com... what everyone should take away from that is "completely separate."
MomoPufflet
Member
I3rand0 said:
:lol
Comes close to the I'm pointing at my crotch review for comedic value-- CLOSE.
I <3 Katamari
Banned
Haha. That's pretty funny.
Of course the fact that 1Up is still a lot more respected than IGN, even after this, is funny also.
Of course the fact that 1Up is still a lot more respected than IGN, even after this, is funny also.
Hahaha... I thought that was a photoshop until I went to www.ign.com and clicked over to the DOA4 tile. That's coOOOold bloooded.I3rand0 said:
DenogginizerOS
BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
Plagiarism to any degree is a cardinal sin in journalism. Saying someone plagiarized only a little is like saying your girlfriend is only a little bit pregnant. As someone who works in a field where success is measured by contributions one makes to peer reviewed journals, I think this is a mark on 1up's overall credibility, but it is in no way a reason to condemn or boycott them. Having said that, it is always wise to remember that a good name is often established by many, but can easily be destroyed by one.
I am looking forward to the next 1up show.
I am looking forward to the next 1up show.
SaggyMonkey said:
Look at it this way--from a personal perspective since many of the people you're implicating post here. Say you write for Time. You've been on staff for ages. You've made a point of playing straight. Now a new hire at Entertainment Weekly slips up in the same way as Richard. A message board champion says the shit is on your hands by proxy.
SaggyMonkey
Member
Are these "EW" writers also all on the "Time" video podcasts?