Support NeoGAF

[M1987]

Happy with that in a console

It's a beast but it will still be shit at RT

 

[KungFucius]

What exactly is a pro console going to add that doesn't double or triple the price of the console?

Not sure people are thinking about this properly at all, the next step up would be to get ray tracing running smoothly at 60fps at 4K, even top end graphics cards that cost thousands struggle to do that

I don't get it either. Having a 4090 PC, a Switch, and a PS5 I can't see it doing anything to make me get it. But maybe for those who just have a PS5 they see value in buying a Pro and selling the non pro for a very minor enhancement to their gaming experience. It seems like a waste in engineering resources to design a Pro when there is no reason for most users to upgrade.

 

[saintjules]

So, there was suppose to be a leak or something today?

 

[MH3M3D]

*a few years later, a PS6 cannot come soon enough. For mysterious reasons PS5 Pro did not deliver what we dreamed and the situation seems to be worse. Releasing HW more frequently as Moore’s Law is dying seems to be making the problem worse… games seem to be less optimised for each console specs with more profiles we have on the market… shocking.

$700+ consoles way bigger than the current ones would be a market failure so, as the pace (time and cost) technology is improving at slowing down more and more with $500 boxes constrained in size and power consumption (as well as with diminishing returns hitting us more and more where you need larger and larger improvements in HW performance to make a significant dent in games… and more HW profiles disincentivising spending lots and lots of time optimising any one profile) I think Pro consoles are the anti answer. Not the first time consumers ask for something that does not benefit them though .

Its OPTIONAL you know. If you dont need the extra power, dont get one. Its for people that want the very best.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

How many PS exclusive games release day 1 on PC? Each game gets released long after the biggest sales window expires on the console. It's not the same.

I too wasn't too fond of the idea of losing sales, but it makes perfect sence. Game sales, dlc, cosmetics, ps+ subscriptions. That ain't a penny they aren't getting

Day 1 releases on PC aren't relevant at all. Not all gamers buy all games on day 1. PC gamers will still wait and eventually get PS games.

If putting games on PC at all is viable, then it's predicated on the assumption that PC gamers and PS console gamers are two distinct groups, and therefore any cross-over is negligible such that the later PC releases won't cannibalize the sales on consoles.

Given that the above statement is true, and it clearly is, then any concern about PS console gamers moving to PC is clearly not significant and therefore citing this as a justification for a Pro console is pure creamy horseshit. Otherwise, Sony wouldn't be putting games on PC at all.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Yep.
I don’t know why certain gamers act like its gonna cause an issue to them or the games. If they don’t like it, just don’t buy it.

Last time there was all the FUD about developers not being able to work with 2 SKU’s, PS4/PS4 Pro. Thats been proven not to be an issue and has actually been great because now we get choices or performance or resolution Etc. I doubt games like Ratchet and Clank etc on PS5 would of had all these performance options if we didnt go down the Pro path

I think it’s mostly because some gamers know they will no longer have the best looking and performing version of a gamers and if they want the best experience, they are going to have to shell out a lot more money for a bump in resolution and frame rates most likely. Honestly, I think a Pro version is totally unnecessary and a waste especially considering they are rarely even pushing the current generation console specifications. Personally, I would spend that time, resources and money on the PS6 which I feel will probably look even less impressive if a PS5 Pro does exist.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The Pro is needed so developers can get that next generation in fidelity while giving the people who absolutely must have 60 fps can get it (if they pay up)

Also I think the PS6 isn't coming until 2029 or 2030.

 

[CanYouFlyBobby?]

Do we know the expected GPU Tflop target of the PS5 pro?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Do we know the expected GPU Tflop target of the PS5 pro?

Maybe 50 but probably in the mid-high 40s.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

A PC as an alternative only really work for Xbox gamers as long as Sony delay PC versions.
For those who like Sony’s exclusives and is annoyed at the low resolution and rocky framerates it makes perfect sense to upgrade to a PS5 Pro.

This is what I said earlier in this thread:

But since then we’ve seen FFXVI come out with an unstable framerate in low resolutions that essentially force people to play a fast action game in 30fps.
Today I think I would buy the PS5 Pro just to not have to do this waiting game to get games on PC.

Playstation releases like 2 first party games a year and most of these games are being released on PC like a year later so it really depends on if your willing to wait.

I don’t think the hardware is the issue that is causing bad performance. It’s definitely poor optimization. New games are releasing and getting crap performance on even PCs with a 4090 and high end CPU due to crap optimization and publishers rushing games out before they are ready. A PS5 Pro wouldn’t change these issues IMO.

Like in 6 months I would not be surprised if patches are released to fix the performance issues with FF16 because again the issue is the optimization no the consoles inability to run the game better.

 

[Mephisto40]

The Pro is needed so developers can get that next generation in fidelity while giving the people who absolutely must have 60 fps can get it (if they pay up)

Also I think the PS6 isn't coming until 2029 or 2030.

Still doesn't make any sense why they would bother

They arent going to be able to target ray tracing at 4k 60fps without the console costing over $1000, nobody is going to buy a console for that much

 

[Neo_GAF]

if sony is creating a ps5 pro, whats its purpose?
-no games for the main system
-barely available base version
-is it supposed to be better at 8k?

 

[asdasdasdbb]

Still doesn't make any sense why they would bother

They arent going to be able to target ray tracing at 4k 60fps without the console costing over $1000, nobody is going to buy a console for that much

I'm not talking about 4k60 with RT. That's too much for even the Pro.

I'm only talking about 60 fps, maybe 1440p with FSR, with a fidelity level that the base console would be 1440p30 + FSR (or even lower res)

 

[RTX4070]

PS5 Pro + GTA VI release bundle! Only console you can play native 4K 60fps ultra!

Not even a 4090 will do that. What are you guys dreaming about?

 

[Ceallach]

I'm not convinced there will be a pro. There just isnt a path to this being a reasonably priced console. They can't even lower the price of the base console. A pro would be priced like the fuckin 3DO.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No Pro is coming this year. 2024, if anything.

Slim will probably be announced either mid-end of this month or August, with a Spider-Man 2 bundle more than likely.

 

[Xtib81]

if sony is creating a ps5 pro, whats its purpose?
-no games for the main system
-barely available base version
-is it supposed to be better at 8k?

We're talking of a console releasing in 1 year and a half at the earliest, there will be games by then.
-it's no longer the case, there's no more issues finding a ps5 at retailers.
-fidelity + performance (and a bit or RT maybe) in a single mode, which the PS5 can't do.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

Not even a 4090 will do that. What are you guys dreaming about?

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

 

[Whitecrow]

How many pages will this thread have until people get their head around ps5 pro being ray-tracing focused upgrade?

 

[DeepEnigma]

How many pages will this thread have until people get their head around ps5 pro being ray-tracing focused update?

We're over 3 years in, and people still can't wrap their heads around TF is also not the end all be all metric for performance in an overall design.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

DF discusses the slim and possible Pro

Timestamped

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

DF discusses the slim and possible Pro

Timestamped

Bugaga is not interested in a PS5 pro? Huge shock.

 

[DeepEnigma]

DF discusses the slim and possible Pro

Timestamped

Why would you "cringe about a detachable" drive? Does one cringe at optional BR drives on you PC setups? How is that even "cringe" worthy? You saying it's cringe is what's cringe, lol.

And Alex wants to say, "developers have enough to code against" as to why there should not be a Pro? Oh, boy. In a world... where the S exists.

All they're doing is repeating themselves, until they won't when, you know...

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Bugaga is not interested in a PS5 pro? Huge shock.

True but notice their shift from what like 3 weeks ago?

Seems like then they have softened a bit as they laughed it off a few weeks ago

Why would you "cringe about a detachable" drive? Does one cringe at optional BR drives on you PC setups? How is that even "cringe" worthy? You saying it's cringe is what's cringe, lol.

And Alex wants to say, "developers have enough to code against" as to why there should not be a Pro? Oh, boy. In a world... where the S exists.

All they're doing is repeating themselves, until they won't when, you know...

I didn't get that either them saying if you include the drive in the box for $499 people will buy it but if its not in the box for $399 and the drive is separate for $100 then people wont buy and can't afford it?

 

[Brucey]

No Pro is coming this year. 2024, if anything.

Slim will probably be announced either mid-end of this month or August, with a Spider-Man 2 bundle more than likely.

Spiderman bundle is when I got my PS3 I think it hit the magic $399 at the time.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

HeisenbergFX4

I'm pretty sure Bagaga will be the first who complains about the PS5 Pro after release.

He will likely do PC/PS5 pro comparison videos even he's not interested in the PS5 Pro.

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Bugaga is not interested in a PS5 pro? Huge shock.

I love DF but man Alex can't stfu sometimes. He should stick only to his area of expertise (PC) and stop giving his hot takes about consoles.

 

[DeepEnigma]

True but notice their shift from what like 3 weeks ago?

Seems like then they have softened a bit as they laughed it off a few weeks ago


I didn't get that either them saying if you include the drive in the box for $499 people will buy it but if its not in the box for $399 and the drive is separate for $100 then people wont buy and can't afford it?

And if they don't buy the drive, who cares? What this means is that all PS5s going forward will have the readily available entry price of $400.

 

[skit_data]

It strikes me as kinda odd that all members of DF seem so pessimistic about a potential PS5 Pro in these recent DF Directs.
They go on about how devs would find it hard to target two specs and how AMDs current cards doesn't seem to be able to live up to their standards with seemingly no interest in what new tech might be part of it (be it AMD or Sony invented).

I guess I just find it strange that they even talk about potential developer burdens when this is sort of the reverse of Series S in that we're looking at increased specs, which seemingly is no problem whatsoever when a new GPU comes out. Imagine that: DF complaining about devs extra work every time a better GPU releases. Kinda puts the wierdness of it in perspective.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It strikes me as kinda odd that all members of DF seem so pessimistic about a potential PS5 Pro in these recent DF Directs.
They go on about how devs would find it hard to target two specs and how AMDs current cards doesn't seem to be able to live up to their standards with seemingly no interest in what new tech might be part of it (be it AMD or Sony invented).

I guess I just find it strange that they even talk about potential developer burdens when this is sort of the reverse of Series S in that we're looking at increased specs, which seemingly is no problem whatsoever when a new GPU comes out. Imagine that: DF complaining about devs extra work every time a better GPU releases. Kinda puts the wierdness of it in perspective.

Imagine a tech channel not thrilled about new tech [from Sony].

I wonder why that is? (rhetorical)

 

[Crispy Gamer]

We all know that as soon as the Pro is announced DF will be excited especially if the performance boost is noteworthy but until then I wish they would just stop talking about it I've yet to hear them postulate the kind of hardware we could see next year but instead they'd rather just bitch about it at least Rich seems to want to further the discussion but I'm over it

 

[DeepEnigma]

We all know that as soon as the Pro is announced DF will be excited especially if the performance boost is noteworthy but until then I wish they would just stop talking about it I've yet to hear them postulate the kind of hardware we could see next year but instead they'd rather just bitch about it at least Rich seems to want to further the discussion but I'm over it

The intellectual inconsistencies in their "reasons" are painfully transparent.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Imagine a tech channel not thrilled about new tech [from Sony].

I wonder why that is? (rhetorical)

Probably because they now have to do more work and cover another console

But a thousand gpu configs and XSX/XSS is just fine

 

[Madserb2023]

PS5 PRO is coming and it will be a 60fps machine and that will more than make it worth the money. Final fantasy 16 running at 60 fps in the quality mode would be great. I still don't get it why Digital Foundry is so against it. I can make the same arguments against high end GPUs. They certainly don't help in regards to optimisation on the PC side.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

The intellectual inconsistencies in their "reasons" are painfully transparent.

They should really be renamed nVidia Foundry

 

[DeepEnigma]

Probably because they now have to do more work and cover another console

But a thousand gpu configs and XSX/XSS is just fine

They should really be renamed nVidia Foundry

Just none of those two's excuses make any sort of sense when it could be applied to everything in gaming tech and advancements. It sounds more dishonest than anything.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

And I'll buy it like the good little consumer I am.

 

[DJ12]

It strikes me as kinda odd that all members of DF seem so pessimistic about a potential PS5 Pro in these recent DF Directs.
They go on about how devs would find it hard to target two specs and how AMDs current cards doesn't seem to be able to live up to their standards with seemingly no interest in what new tech might be part of it (be it AMD or Sony invented).

I guess I just find it strange that they even talk about potential developer burdens when this is sort of the reverse of Series S in that we're looking at increased specs, which seemingly is no problem whatsoever when a new GPU comes out. Imagine that: DF complaining about devs extra work every time a better GPU releases. Kinda puts the wierdness of it in perspective.

DF talking smack about a pro version and using some highly dubious metric to poo poo the idea?? (Different skus indeed)

Looks like series X really is this gens 'Pro' edition for MS

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

I can make the same arguments against high end GPUs. They certainly don't help in regards to optimisation on the PC side.

There was an article about this:

I asked developers why PC ports in 2023 run like garbage | Digital Trends

Nearly every major PC port has run into issues this year. Why? I asked some developers to find out.

www.digitaltrends.com

Complete bullshit on DF side.
The Developer claims that shitty PC Ports are because of too many PC configurations.

But they say in this video It will be too hard to develop for two consoles??

 

[Brucey]

The intellectual inconsistencies in their "reasons" are painfully transparent.

 

[Loxus]

No. Do you even try to read the room about that? Most games even at 30fps don't run at native 4K. There is still a lot of margin before reaching 4K with max fidelity. And then reaching 60fps with that. This time it's all about RT.

Do you realize what you guys are asking from the pro is a generational leap?

 

[Thirty7ven]

DF discusses the slim and possible Pro

Timestamped

Such a dumb all around conversation. Series S not a problem, PS5 multiple specs? A problem for developers, RT units? Uh devs not gonna like that. Now let me cry when console games don’t use Nvidia features in PC ports because they are easy to implement.

One of the things that is really in full display is how down they are on everything PS5. These guys are a joke.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Such a dumb all around conversation. Series S not a problem, PS5 multiple specs? A problem for developers, RT units? Uh devs not gonna like that. Now let me cry when console games don’t use Nvidia features in PC ports because they are easy to implement.

Like I said, intellectually inconsistent. Dishonest.

Or, pure mental gymnastics. Or both.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Such a dumb all around conversation. Series S not a problem, PS5 multiple specs? A problem for developers, RT units? Uh devs not gonna like that.

They are smart enough to understand that for the PS5 pro to achieve what people want, Sony would be better off just holding off until the PS6.

The base PS5 increased in price after launch which isn't very common so this thing would have to be like $700+ and the base PS5 would still be the baseline so what would really be the point? This is how they are viewing it.

The Series S was a dumb move by MS, why should sony follow the same mistake with doing two different SKU? The current console can already do 60 FPS lol.

 

[DeepEnigma]

They are smart enough to understand that for the PS5 pro to achieve what people want, Sony would be better off just holding off until the PS6.

The base PS5 increased in price after launch which isn't very common so this thing would have to be like $700+ and the base PS5 would still be the baseline so what would really be the point? This is how they are viewing it.

The Series S was a dumb move by MS, why should sony follow the same mistake with doing two different SKU? The current console can already do 60 FPS lol.

The two different SKUs was not the dumb move (reason) in that equation.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Why would you "cringe about a detachable" drive? Does one cringe at optional BR drives on you PC setups? How is that even "cringe" worthy? You saying it's cringe is what's cringe, lol.

And Alex wants to say, "developers have enough to code against" as to why there should not be a Pro? Oh, boy. In a world... where the S exists.

All they're doing is repeating themselves, until they won't when, you know...

And what about the Steam Deck 700$ is ok, but a PS5 Pro over 550$ is ludicrous. Shit takes will always be shit takes.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Its OPTIONAL you know. If you dont need the extra power, dont get one. Its for people that want the very best.

No it is not optional . Its effects certainly are not (on devs either and if this becomes a more and more frequent pattern you start bundling the worst of PC’s and PC API’s and the worst of consoles which are still user not upgradable closed boxes to hacking and modding) and by trying to get the very best as you say you make it all worse a bit at a time too and you will not get what you seek either. How was my argument wrong?
What console games needs is to allow developers more stability not less, what games need is greater and greater HW capability leaps (which are taking longer and longer to achieve) to give tangible results not smaller, what HW evolution needs is longer cycles to mature not less… and the answer is essentially to throw evidence and logic out of the window ?

You know other places where these frequent iterative HW releases are optional? Mobile phones and PC’s, if you now imagine PC’s without the ability to change parts and cases yourself the picture becomes clearer and you can see how consoles following the same path would make the current problems worse.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Like I said, intellectually inconsistent. Dishonest.

Or, pure mental gymnastics. Or both.

I mean why would DF, a tech channel, be against new tech coming to market and give them free content to produce?

 

[SHA]

RT is too demanding even with the Pro consoles. I don't think pro consoles will make much of a difference. Even with most of the expensive GPUs on PC, can't hit 4k 60fps.

66% IPC gain from the cpu isn't enough to give a push across the entire library, I think it's going to be the opposite this time, last time the pro meant to keep gamers from switching to pcs, and now it will just make them run away from consoles cause pcs have done it long-time ago, and way better actually.

 

[jroc74]

They are smart enough to understand that for the PS5 pro to achieve what people want, Sony would be better off just holding off until the PS6.

The base PS5 increased in price after launch which isn't very common so this thing would have to be like $700+ and the base PS5 would still be the baseline so what would really be the point? This is how they are viewing it.

The Series S was a dumb move by MS, why should sony follow the same mistake with doing two different SKU? The current console can already do 60 FPS lol.

For one, Sony isn't making a weaker PS5.