Sangetsu-II
Member
It will take them at least 4 more weeks to reach 50k, slow and steady indeed.
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Media Create Sales: Week 13, 2015 (Mar 23 - Mar 29)
- Thread starter Mpl90
- Start date
It will take them at least 4 more weeks to reach 50k, slow and steady indeed.
yikes, those D5 sales are brutal, hoping the overseas sales are high to compensate
lol
lol
Pennywise83
Banned
D5 is a huge bomb, no matter how people try to spin the result; NIS was expecting much more, and also note that this should be its top-tier IP; if the best-selling series (which is also the one where the company is investing more) is debuting at 23k, there's some problem.
As for OPM3, the decline is real. Probably still profitable, but a PS4/PSV only fourth entry will be a bloodbath.
As for Senran Kagura, wasn't the shipment around 100k? Sales were tepid overall: declining wrt Shinovi Versus on TWO platforms. What ths week is teaching is that PSV and PS4/PS3 userbases are really overlapping. SAO sold way more than the previous entry, but remained flat on PSV; SK did much worse on PSV wrt to the previous entry; also OPM3 had no signs of growth.
As for OPM3, the decline is real. Probably still profitable, but a PS4/PSV only fourth entry will be a bloodbath.
As for Senran Kagura, wasn't the shipment around 100k? Sales were tepid overall: declining wrt Shinovi Versus on TWO platforms. What ths week is teaching is that PSV and PS4/PS3 userbases are really overlapping. SAO sold way more than the previous entry, but remained flat on PSV; SK did much worse on PSV wrt to the previous entry; also OPM3 had no signs of growth.
Eolz
Member
It can. Yakuza 0 was underwhelming for example.
It really just depends on the game and its platform. But Disgaea 5 is far from just underwhelming or modest.
It certainly can, but has two downsides.
1) It's boring.
2) It doesn't fit a narrative. People want to view PS4 as either notably successful (if they are a big fan of the system) or a failure (if they aren't). "It did fine, not particularly great, but not terrible either" fits neither of these narratives.
Pennywise83
Banned
If the 150k target is true, than a 23k debut would mean that the game is going to sell 1/4 of NIS expectation: a bad result; also given the history of the franchise, the debut is awful. Note finally that Disgaea is for NIS the top franchise, not some leftover IP that no one cares about.
That's my issue, people are saying it is a bomb "just because" with no reasoning or context. Disgaea sales have been going down for awhile, I think Nippon Ichi knows that. These aren't exactly games with AAA budgets. Like, what did you expect this game to sale, and why, considering the sales of D4 and DD2?
It seems to be a common thing, with stuff like God Eater 2 Rage Burst, Project Diva F, now these.
A console and handheld simultaenous release are not introducing new buyers, but splitting the established base.
This is why something like Persona 5 releasing on Vita at the same time would not do Atlus any favors.
The 23K is only 4 days of sales, not a whole month.
AlbionHero
Banned
Well a popular series dropping to about 20k first week is a bomb to me. Especially when the publisher was saying their goal was 150k.
Disgaea games don't have a lot of legs do they? I can't see it going much over 35-40k in Japan. And will it even do that much in the West?
All the Disgaea games that sold more were also 3-4 days.
It is possible to anticipate failure and for it still to be a failure. Knowing that your IPs are declining and being unable to create any new IPs which are more successful, does not mean that when you release new products and they sell poorly as expected, that it is not a poor showing. If everyone expects something to flop and it does, that doesn't mean it is not a flop.
Eolz
Member
I think most people would have considered 35-40k underwhelming. 20k is pretty bad.
However, of course Disgaea always had "modest" sales compared to other games. 60k would have seemed good compared to other episodes.
Orniletter
Banned
They "haven't been going down" all that much. You posted the numbers yourself.
The last new game that wasn't a port did 55k in it's first week (and it was a sequel to a mainline entry).
The last brand new numbered title did almost 80k in it's first week.
We are looking at a ~ 50-70 % drop in FW sales. Thats a lot .
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
D3 had a LTD of 90k iirc. D5 could have a LTD of 40-50k. Really, the only thing that can make D5 a success would be its Western sales. It has been noted that Disgaea makes 50% of its sales overseas. That being said, I can't see the West picking up the slack.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Kurokos Basketball: Miracle Victory [3DS] - 43,087
Kuroko's Basketball: Ties to the Future [3DS] - 33,541
sorry to disappoint you but the second one is the latest
There is no way to make any of these bold statements considering we don't know what the digital sales were. People are buying alot more digital games than they were back when D4 came out (which was the last Disgaea with all hard-copy only sales). See: Cities Skylines, or basically every Nintendo game over the past 2 years.
My point is that, every game talked about in this thread is either a success or a flop, with no in-between.
That's not true at all. But if you don't want to participate in actual discussion and you just want to defend a game which has commercially bombed by deflecting, go ahead.
I don't even know what you're trying to argue at this point. Cities Skylines?
Compare 23k to 150k.
This opening was less than half that the previously worst one (D1)
So yeah, it's a big flop
I hope that with the western sales the game is able to reach 100k
I doubt that NIS will kill the franchise, but they maybe focus on more Vita games, and I don't see any other company trying to make japanese SRPGs in the consoles this days
AlbionHero
Banned
The average Japanese game sees like 5-10% digital sales. I don't think going from 22k to 24k is really the difference between a flop and a success.
Theres really no way to look at Disgaea 5s sales and not see that its a complete disaster for NIS.
I think the market for these types of games on PS4 doesn't exist yet. They took a big risk and it didn't pan out for them.
I'm scared to see how Neptunia VII does on PS4 next month...
Orniletter
Banned
There is literally zero chance for D5's digital sales to come even close to making up for the lost 50-70 % first week sales.
I like NIS as a publisher as well, but there is no denying that D5 underperformed.
And Cities Skylines is a pretty bad example as well.
Non-fullpriced PC game in the west vs. full priced console exclusive in japan
Klart
Member
Saltier than the Red Sea.
I am not deflecting. People are saying that this game would go from a flop to a success with only 20K more in sales? I don't agree.
EDIT:
I agree! I agree that sales are mediocre and under what we might hoped...but people are saying it is a flop or it bombed and saying RIP NIS and RIP Disgaea....these are all gross exaggerations. That's the only point I am making.
I think it declined just before you read this "shit"... ;]
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
iirc D5 can't run on Vita.....or maybe I'm confusing it with another game that looked like Vita could run it but was said that it could not.
EV had 10k digital.
Dude...
dakkumauji
Member
Fanbase can be shrinking due to fatigue.
I imagine most people still haven't given up their PS3s yet either as for PS3/PS4 games, the PS3 version still sells more even though that gap has been shrinking slowly.
Being a PS4 game only, it might have some relatively small legs as more people buy PS4s.
Did it do poorly? Sure, but I kinda expect NIS realized that, especially with how many other things came out this same week.
Probably didn't help Sony ignored D5 for their marketing too.
Oh, bummer, I misread it. Ah well. Reverse my comment then, hopefully it sells better. Though maybe people heard that you can play through the first story super super fast, and it's pricey if that's all you want.
Eolz
Member
As said above, digital sales in japan are still typically around 10% in Japan, and rarely 20%. Even if it was 20k digital sales (so nearly the same as physical sales, which would be hugely surprising)...
You just said only flops or successes here, but apply the same logic with your comment. 43k wouldn't have been a success, but underwhelming.
Even with a console that doesn't seem to have an userbase for japanese niche games yet (and when you see that SK:EV sold more than that...), there's not much to defend those sales, really. I really doubt that even if NIS expected bad sales, they expected sales that bad...
D5 is a huge flop, and everyone saw it coming. It would be more forgivable if it was a new IP or revival but they've been pumping these out quite frequently in an effort to tread water and it's their star series. People are probably fatigued and don't want it on consoles. We've discussed many times there were options for more platforms but N1 just went full speed ahead into oblivion, whether to make a statement or not it was probably a mistake.
Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus sold 94,324 copies in the first week. 120K is the shipped number which included the download version.
Estival Versus shipped over 100K copies total with 80%-90% sell-through and over 10K downloads.
https://twitter.com/kenichiro_taka/status/582839733501370368
Japanese retail sales are extremely front loaded especially for core audience titles. A 22k opening with a 40-60% sell-through rate means that it shipped about 50k to retailers and couldn't even sell that to the audience in the first week. A healthy sell-through would be 80% or more, indicating that there is demand for the supply.
If the game opened at 40-50k with a high sell-through rate, it will be able to get restocked, and would likely be able to double number in total sales. The current sales would mean there is still a ton of the game on shelves and there is a lack of demand. There is unlikely to be more shipments, and if the initial shipment cannot be cleared, retailers will put the game on bargain bins and get rid of the stock instead.
So to summarize, a 22k opening with a low sell-through of 40-60% means the game is unlikely to ever sell over 50k. While a 40-50k opening with higher sell-through would give the game a chance to hit 90-100k in sales or more. So the difference in success is not 20k, but much more than that.
NIS has already said that the Vita cannot handle D5.
Moor-Angol
Banned
it had a 60-80% sellthrough, probably the publisher and retailers expected a step back from the previous entry
the problem should have been if the sellthrough was about 40-60% or worst
ShadowSoldier89
Member
its really not though
If all the people who bought it buy the season pass too, it'll be like 22k with the feel of 50k
flatearthpandas
Member
Had no idea Disgaea 5 was out this week. Has NISA said anything about a release date yet? Might grab it if I'll have to wait forever.
Kind of sad EV outsold it though. Disgaea seems like a staple.
Kind of sad EV outsold it though. Disgaea seems like a staple.
Wildarmsjecht
Member
Could D5 sales be so low because of the plethora of new releases that sold pretty well this week?
I mean, something's gotta give in that environment.
Still gonna pick up at launch because its freaking DISGAEA
I mean, something's gotta give in that environment.
Still gonna pick up at launch because its freaking DISGAEA
Gotcha. So it's around the same. Not bad.
AlbionHero
Banned
I don't think it would be in their best interest to say it could because it would give people motivation to wait for the inevitable Vita version. I'm still confident it'll appear on Vita at some point, especially after how badly it bombed on PS4. They can make some accommodations to make it playable on Vita.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy [3DS] - 68,901
Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy - Curtain Call [3DS] - 75,867
Theatrhythm: Dragon Quest [3DS] - 61,073
at least in some ways FF still can do better than DQ
Theatrhythm: Final Fantasy - Curtain Call [3DS] - 75,867
Theatrhythm: Dragon Quest [3DS] - 61,073
at least in some ways FF still can do better than DQ