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[metalslimer]

If you don´t get it, it doesn´t mean it does not make sense.

Sorry you are not making any sense. You say the profit is minimal which is already a red flag. The opportunity cost to make a system that minimally profits just so Nintendo isn't making that money is not business works. Sony will not pump money into a system to barely make any money just to spite Nintendo.

 

[L Thammy]

lol what, that makes absolutely no sense

I recall reading a lot of that in the early days of the the Vita, or at least something very similar. Sony is some superhero that will use its resources on a failing system just to stop Nintendo from taking over the traditional portable world.

Are there even great software royalties left in the handheld business?

It's probably part of why both companies are making pushes towards digital distribution.

 

[Nirolak]

Are there even great software royalties left in the handheld business?

One of the key problems Nintendo has financially these days is that they miss tremendously on overall software sold.

We usually focus on the hardware misses on GAF, but the software misses are huge and each of those missing units is like $5-$8 that Nintendo doesn't get. When that's a miss of 30+ million software units, it's a ton of money.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Are there even great software royalties left in the handheld business?

One of the key problems Nintendo has financially these days is that they miss tremendously on overall software sold.

We usually focus on the hardware misses on GAF, but the software misses are huge and each of those missing units is like $5-$8 that Nintendo doesn't get. When that's a miss of 30+ million software units, it's a ton of money.

Aren't one of the usual reasons people claim software is failing to move for 3DS is due to its tendency for higher price points? It feels Nintendo is in this weird area where they might move more software in general if there was a general decline in prices back to more normalized historic handheld SW pricing but they fear doing that in case sales don't pick up

 

[chrominance]

Well at least it's on consoles too?

I don't get it. Is this supposed to be a fighting game?

What is this? Did the person in charge of their channel use Google translate?

So liek apparently it's a fake. Unbreakable Soul is a real game, but the trailers are not and the game is not coming to PS3, 360 and mobile.

Spoiler

Only mobile. CRY SOME MORE

Spoiler

 

[cw_sasuke]

Are people expecting the next Nintendo handheld to be a completely new line or just a DS/3DS successor? I really think they need and should release something complete new, even if it means no or limited backwards compability. You can't always OK and implement past hardware when designing a system which is meant to be relevant 5 years for now. I also think that their handheld have to be cheaper again.

 

[metalslimer]

Cook is talking up Apple's performance in China and Japan — in Japan he says Apple hit smartphone marketshare north of 55 percent.

Japan was the fastest growing operating segment, rising sales by 26%

In today's relevant news of why the market is declining.

Are people expecting the next Nintendo handheld to be a completely new line or just a DS/3DS successor? I really think they need and should release something complete new, even if it means no or limited backwards compability. You can't always OK and implement past hardware when designing a system which is meant to be relevant 5 years for now. I also think that their handheld have to be cheaper again.

They might keep the DS name, but go with a completely different design.The Wii name is definitely done, but it's hard to imagine current Nintendo throwing DS away until it craters which might happen if they try and release another DS in this climate.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Are people expecting the next Nintendo handheld to be a completely new line or just a DS/3DS successor? I really think they need and should release something complete new, even if it means no or limited backwards compability. You can't always OK and implement past hardware when designing a system which is meant to be relevant 5 years for now. I also think that their handheld have to be cheaper again.

I think they are going to dump the DS name, they already caused a lot of name confusion with the 3DS. Also it likely won't be backwards compatible since it will be using a modified Wii U architecture.

 

[metalslimer]

I think they are going to dump the DS name, they already caused a lot of name confusion with the 3DS. Also it likely won't be backwards compatible since it will be using a modified Wii U architecture.

Is this actually confirmed?

 

[Mory Dunz]

Handhelds don't just make themselves. The substantial R&D that goes into building these systems will prevent Sony from making another system, and if they do release another handheld it will not be the same kind of handheld you want or expect from Sony with the reduced budget they would be going into making the system. Plus, who in the world is going to sell this new system that would likely do away with physical media altogether? Sony will release something mobile related to gaming probably, but they are not releasing another dedicated handheld.

Also I would be shocked when if you take into account Vita's R&D, marketing, and game development if Sony has come anywhere close to profiting on the whole project. And the fact that Sony continues to sell the device does not prove they have made their money back.

That's what I'm always wondering. Not to hate on the Vita, but I hear "It's making money, it's making money" sooo many times by people on GAF, that I have to question it.

I'm sure when Sony were putting costs in the development of the Vita, they weren't expecting only a 7-8(?) million unit return by this point. Especially on the back of the PSP,

 

[SwiftDeath]

So liek apparently it's a fake. Unbreakable Soul is a real game, but the trailers are not and the game is not coming to PS3, 360 and mobile.

Spoiler

Only mobile. CRY SOME MORE

Spoiler

The feels, the feels are real

Spoiler

:'(

That's what I'm always wondering. Not to hate on the Vita, but I hear "It's making money, it's making money" sooo many times by people on GAF, that I have to question it.

I'm sure when Sony were putting costs in the development of the Vita, they weren't expecting only a 7-8(?) million unit return by this point. Especially on the back of the PSP,

It wouldn't suprise me if the Vita is not a profitable venture for Sony when all reasonable costs [R&D, marketing etc.] are included

However I wouldn't be surprised if Sony is making some small profit on the continued manufacturing and sale of Vitas, memory cards, games etc. if you take those costs above as sunk cost investments. I.E. at this point it might be worth it for Sony to continue to produce and sell Vita's assuming there's some level of demand that meets a reasonable economy of scale but it's likely it wouldn't recoup all their sunk costs

 

[Road]

It's useless comparison time!

[WII] Dragon Quest X: Mezameshi Itsutsu no Shuzoku Online # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2012.08.02} (¥6.980) - 367.148 / NEW
[WIU] Dragon Quest X: Mezameshi Itsutsu no Shuzoku Online # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2013.03.30} (¥6.980) - 33.302 / NEW

Wii U sales:
22.829 (DQX+Game & Wario) | 11.398 (week prior)

[PS3] Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Real Reborn # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2013.08.27} (¥3.300) - 184.018 / NEW
[PS4] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.04.14} - 31.326 / NEW

PS4 sales:
14.396 (FFXIV) | 13.034 (week prior)

The logical conclusion is that a bundle with no special design is better than a bundle with a terrible design.



Or that maybe they should have produced more than 1400 units of the PS4 bundle and made it available in more than one store.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Sorry you are not making any sense. You say the profit is minimal which is already a red flag. The opportunity cost to make a system that minimally profits just so Nintendo isn't making that money is not business works. Sony will not pump money into a system to barely make any money just to spite Nintendo.

It makes perfect sense. Having little profit is better than not having profit at all. Sony is pumping money into Vita by making games for it and reducing the manuspfacturing cost. It's not to spite Nintendo, it is to not give a direct competitor 100% of dedicated portable market, and by extension gaming market in Japan.

Also I would be shocked when if you take into account Vita's R&D, marketing, and game development if Sony has come anywhere close to profiting on the whole project. And the fact that Sony continues to sell the device does not prove they have made their money back.

The fact that Sony keeps the Vita afloat and don't kill it shows that the Vita is profitable.

 

[Jamix012]

It makes perfect sense. Having little profit is better than not having profit at all.

Opportunity cost.

 

[metalslimer]

It makes perfect sense. Having little profit is better than not having profit at all. Sony is pumping money into Vita by making games for it and reducing the manuspfacturing cost. It's not to spite Nintendo, it is to not give a direct competitor 100% of dedicated portable market, and by extension gaming market in Japan.

And the cost of making a competitor machine to Nintendo for that market is not the kind of cost that spend when you expect such a small profit.

And yes, that money can be spent elsewhere for greater returns and those developers can certainly be used for better returns on their consoles or mobile division. And with the way things are looking, mobile is looking to become the market for Japan. Also, why do you think Sony even cares about Japan that much? They are not Nintendo.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I think they are going to dump the DS name, they already caused a lot of name confusion with the 3DS. Also it likely won't be backwards compatible since it will be using a modified Wii U architecture.

Haven't heard about them using WiiU hardware and even so they could still implement 3DS hardware just for BC tasks - but I doubt it. They will probably cut hardware BC and put the old games on the eShop. They already have GBA titles for WiiU and DS games are announced, if the next portable is based on WiiU der environment these VC consoles should work on the next portable as well.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Is this actually confirmed?

Iwata said the next handheld and console will share their architecture which will be based off of the Wii U's.

Haven't heard about them using WiiU hardware and even so they could still implement 3DS hardware just for BC tasks - but I doubt it. They will probably cut hardware BC and put the old games on the eShop. They already have GBA titles for WiiU and DS games are announced, if the next portable is based on WiiU der environment these VC consoles should work on the next portable as well.

Architecture, not hardware.


Edit, here is the quote:

&#8220;Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda.&#8221;

&#8220;Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii.&#8221;

&#8220;In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.&#8221;

&#8220;Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples.&#8221;

 

[Nirolak]

It makes perfect sense. Having little profit is better than not having profit at all. Sony is pumping money into Vita by making games for it and reducing the manuspfacturing cost. It's not to spite Nintendo, it is to not give a direct competitor 100% of dedicated portable market, and by extension gaming market in Japan.

Opportunity cost.

Right, they can use those teams to go make PS4 digital games, or combine them to make a retail game, or have them make DLC.

The moneyhat dollars can be spent getting support for their home consoles instead.

The hardware and hardware marketing dollars can be spent on other products, even outside of the PlayStation division.

 

[Sandfox]

It makes perfect sense. Having little profit is better than not having profit at all. Sony is pumping money into Vita by making games for it and reducing the manuspfacturing cost. It's not to spite Nintendo, it is to not give a direct competitor 100% of dedicated portable market, and by extension gaming market in Japan.

Opportunity cost? Wouldn't it be smarter for Sony to use their resources on ideas/plans that will make more money over something that will make very little.

 

[GhostTrick]

It makes perfect sense. Having little profit is better than not having profit at all. Sony is pumping money into Vita by making games for it and reducing the manuspfacturing cost. It's not to spite Nintendo, it is to not give a direct competitor 100% of dedicated portable market, and by extension gaming market in Japan.

Because of opportunity cost, big companies don't care about little profit. First of all, it's not sure Vita is profitable. And to be fair, if Sony's objective was to not give a direct competitor 100% of that market, Sony would be far more agressive with Vita. Which, clearly, they're not.

The fact that Sony keeps the Vita afloat and don't kill it shows that the Vita is profitable.

Not at all. PS3 took a long time before not bleeding money. As of today, it's not even sure PS3 brought all the money lost, back.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Iwata said the next handheld and console will share their architecture which will be based off of the Wii U's.


Architecture, not hardware.

Well I meant hardware architecture, so they are taking the WiiU as base for their upcoming systems.. .Okay I guess.

 

[Mpl90]

Is this actually confirmed?

This is what Iwata stated in last Q&A

You have explained your concern about users being divided by hardware. Currently, you have both a handheld device business and a home console business. I would like to know whether the organizational changes that took place last year are going to lead to, for example, the integration of handheld devices and home consoles into one system over the medium term, or a focus on cost saving and the improvement of resource efficiency in the medium run. Please also explain if you still have room to reduce research and development expenses.
A 5
Iwata:

Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda. Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development. However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams.

For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Absorbing Wii U's architecture is different than re-using it.

 

[metalslimer]

Sony will probably be able to keep their niche with Vita anyway without the need to release another system. The next Nintendo handheld probably won't be much more powerful than Vita so developers who are still bothering with dedicated handhelds would probably be inclined to try multiplatform games between the two.

Not at all. PS3 took a long time before not bleeding money. As of today, it's not even sure PS3 brought all the money lost, back.

It's actually pretty clear that the PS3 didn't even come close to making all of its money back. The money Sony lost during the early PS3 years isn't even the total amount lost on the PS3 as the PS2 and PSP were both profitable as well.

Edit: Also Nintendo hasn't learned much if they try and repurpose Wii U's architecture.

 

[ArchedThunder]

This is what Iwata stated in last Q&A



Absorbing Wii U's architecture is different than re-using it.

It's clear he meant that it will be based on the Wii U's architecture, in the same way that the Wii's was based on the Gamecube's and the Wii U's on the Wii. But the main point is that the next handheld's architecture will be wildly different from the 3DS's.

Sony will probably be able to keep their niche with Vita anyway without the need to release another system. The next Nintendo handheld probably won't be much more powerful than Vita so developers who are still bothering with dedicated handhelds would probably be inclined to try multiplatform games between the two.

Nintendo will probably shoot for hardware as close to the Wii U as possible while still keeping it cheap. We'll likely end up with something that has about the same amount of grunt as the Vita but is capable of more advanced effects and lighting, similar to the 3DS compared to the PSP.

Edit: Also Nintendo hasn't learned much if they try and repurpose Wii U's architecture.

The Wii U's architecture isn't its problem, it was documentation. They've been spending money on and building on top of the same architecture for around 15 years, they aren't going to throw it away. They just need to have better documentation.

 

[test_account]

I'm pretty sure that Sony will make a new handheld if they believe there is a market for it. Despite what the Vita sold, there is chance to make something different, if they believe there is a market there. Its the same with Nintendo and WiiU. I doubt that Nintendo will just give up on consoles just because WiiU failed. I think they will try something new the next time. I'm not saying that Sony will make a new handheld, but its hard to know what Sony thinks about the future of the handheld market.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

And the cost of making a competitor machine to Nintendo for that market is not the kind of cost that spend when you expect such a small profit.

And yes, that money can be spent elsewhere for greater returns and those developers can certainly be used for better returns on their consoles or mobile division. And with the way things are looking, mobile is looking to become the market for Japan. Also, why do you think Sony even cares about Japan that much? They are not Nintendo.

You have no prove whatsoever that money can be spent better except you saying it. Because Sony needs Japanese gaming companies to pump software into their systems. Games like Tales, Etc would not comes to the west without the Japanese market sales.

Opportunity cost.

Theres no proof that the games which are made on Vita would sell better on the PS4 and it would be more costly to make these games on PS4 to begin with and take longer time.

Right, they can use those teams to go make PS4 digital games, or combine them to make a retail game, or have them make DLC.

The moneyhat dollars can be spent getting support for their home consoles instead.

The hardware and hardware marketing dollars can be spent on other products, even outside of the PlayStation division.

Opportunity cost? Wouldn't it be smarter for Sony to use their resources on ideas/plans that will make more money over something that will make very little.

Puppeteer flopped big time as plenty of games. There's no evidence that the games will sell better on the PS4.

 

[ArchedThunder]

I'm pretty sure that Sony will make a new handheld if they believe there is a market for it. Despite what the Vita sold, there is chance to make something different, if they believe there is a market there. Its the same with Nintendo and WiiU. I doubt that Nintendo will just give up on consoles just because WiiU failed. I think they will try something new the next time. I'm not saying that Sony will make a new handheld, but its hard to know what Sony thinks about the future of the handheld market.

I think there is a better chance of Sony making a Playstation tablet than a new handheld.

 

[DaBoss]

So liek apparently it's a fake. Unbreakable Soul is a real game, but the trailers are not and the game is not coming to PS3, 360 and mobile.

Spoiler

Only mobile. CRY SOME MORE

Spoiler

lol okay, now that makes sense.

And the game will probably be completely watered down. A 3D fighter on mobile? lol

Capcom's fighters on mobile are okay at best.

 

[metalslimer]

I'm pretty sure that Sony will make a new handheld if they believe there is a market for it. Despite what the Vita sold, there is chance to make something different, if they believe there is a market there. Its the same with Nintendo and WiiU. I doubt that Nintendo will just give up on consoles just because WiiU failed. I think they will try something new the next time. I'm not saying that Sony will make a new handheld, but its hard to know what Sony thinks about the future of the handheld market.

There is a huge difference here. PS4 and Xbone to a lesser extent show that a large console market still exists that Nintendo certainly wants to get a part of. Vita's sales in the west and even the mediocre 3DS sales show that the dedicated handheld market in the west has collapsed. If you want to argue against that, than that's fine. Argue how Sony is going to release a device to reinvigorate the handheld market. The argument that Sony is going to spend a ton of money to develop a device that with miniscule profits just to prevent Nintendo from grabbing that miniscule audience you have is not a good one.

You have no prove whatsoever that money can be spent better except you saying it. Because Sony needs Japanese gaming companies to pump software into their systems. Games like Tales, Etc would not comes to the west without the Japanese market sales.

And you have no proof Sony is profiting on Vita right now. We are not talking about Vita right now anyway. We are talking about a new even more expensive device. And if you don't think that Sony would provide a substantial upgrade from Vita, why in the world would people buy it anyway? And if Sony can't spend the extremely large sum of money it takes to launch and develop one of these devices in a way that gets them more than these small profits, it just means Sony is a terribly run business, but that's been obvious for a long time anyway.

 

[L Thammy]

You have no prove whatsoever that money can be spent better except you saying it. Because Sony needs Japanese gaming companies to pump software into their systems. Games like Tales, Etc would not comes to the west without the Japanese market sales.

Has there been any prove that Sony cares about Japanese games this gen? Excluding companies like Capcom and Konami, who make huge amounts of games focused on Western sales and don't rely as much on portables. It's not like they've made an earnest effort to make the PS4 succeed there.

Puppeteer flopped big time as plenty of games. There's no evidence that the games will sell better on the PS4.

I get the feeling that this is a really cheap port, but I haven't seen it. Can someone confirm?

 

[SwiftDeath]

I wonder what we'll be playing Pokemon on in another 20 or so years...

 

[Sandfox]

You have no prove whatsoever that money can be spent better except you saying it. Because Sony needs Japanese gaming companies to pump software into their systems. Games like Tales, Etc would not comes to the west without the Japanese market sales.

Theres no proof that the games which are made on Vita would sell better on the PS4 and it would be more costly to make these games on PS4 to begin with and take longer time.



Puppeteer flopped big time as plenty of games. There's no evidence that the games will sell better on the PS4.

Except for the fact that PS4 will have a much larger install base and they would more than likely pump their resources into bigger projects than what the Vita is getting.

 

[Principate]

I'm pretty sure that Sony will make a new handheld if they believe there is a market for it. Despite what the Vita sold, there is chance to make something different, if they believe there is a market there. Its the same with Nintendo and WiiU. I doubt that Nintendo will just give up on consoles just because WiiU failed. I think they will try something new the next time. I'm not saying that Sony will make a new handheld, but its hard to know what Sony thinks about the future of the handheld market.

SCEA has completely given up on the vita SCEA similarly but not as bad, they're releasing PS Now on Tablets and Smart phones. That's equivalent of Nintendo releasing games on iOS and androids, since the Vita's whole schtick is console games on the go. I highly, highly doubt they're making another dedicated handheld. gaming tablet sure that probably runs android, but and dedicated handheld seems unlikely given the decisions they made.

The R&D, marketing and manufacturing costs, Sony's current financial situation and the fact it's rapidly contracting market screams it would be a terrible decision. It's simply not a decision I can see someone at Sony making under good conscience. Nintendo can try again after the wiiu, they have the capital to whether the risks and it's part of the core of their company. This is not the same with sony where PSP and Vita was just another product in their portfolio.

 

[Nirolak]

You have no prove whatsoever that money can be spent better except you saying it. Because Sony needs Japanese gaming companies to pump software into their systems. Games like Tales, Etc would not comes to the west without the Japanese market sales.

Theres no proof that the games which are made on Vita would sell better on the PS4 and it would be more costly to make these games on PS4 to begin with and take longer time.

If they need Tales though I'm not sure the Vita would really impact that.

They're not even making more Tales games for the system unless I missed something.

Puppeteer flopped big time as plenty of games. There's no evidence that the games will sell better on the PS4.

Well, if they can't make something more marketable than Puppeteer, they should probably just lay off the team and spend money elsewhere.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I'm pretty sure that Sony will make a new handheld if they believe there is a market for it. Despite what the Vita sold, there is chance to make something different, if they believe there is a market there. Its the same with Nintendo and WiiU. I doubt that Nintendo will just give up on consoles just because WiiU failed. I think they will try something new the next time. I'm not saying that Sony will make a new handheld, but its hard to know what Sony thinks about the future of the handheld market.

It will be interesting to see how Nintendo responds to the WiiU's atrocious sales and how Sony responds to the Vita's atrocious sales.

I don't wither of them are going to pull out of those sectors.

 

[michaelius]

I think there is a better chance of Sony making a Playstation tablet than a new handheld.

Which is precisely what they should be doing

Tablet with buttons and analogs to match ds4 so it works perfectly with streamed games from PS4 and from PS Now service.

Compatible with android games and most importantly apps

Native games built upon wastly expanded PSM.

 

[test_account]

I think there is a better chance of Sony making a Playstation tablet than a new handheld.

That is possible, but i think it then has to be quite different than other tablets, because iOS and Andriod has such huge selection of games and apps already, its hard to compete against that. Well, unless a Playstation tablet is using Android that is

There is a huge difference here. PS4 and Xbone to a lesser extent show that a large console market still exists that Nintendo certainly wants to get a part of. Vita's sales in the west and even the mediocre 3DS sales show that the dedicated handheld market in the west has collapsed. If you want to argue against that, than that's fine. Argue how Sony is going to release a device to reinvigorate the handheld market. The argument that Sony is going to spend a ton of money to develop a device that with miniscule profits just to prevent Nintendo from grabbing that miniscule audience you have is not a good one.

Sorry if i didnt make myself clearer, but i'm not arguing for or against that Sony will make a new handheld. I'm just saying that there is always a chance to make something new despite on how a previous product sold. One failure doesnt necessarily means that future investments will be abandoned. It depends on how the companies believe in a certain part of the market. It is possible that Sony will drop out of the dedicated handheld market based on what the Vita sold, but i have no idea how Sony views the future of the handheld market.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Because of opportunity cost, big companies don't care about little profit. First of all, it's not sure Vita is profitable. And to be fair, if Sony's objective was to not give a direct competitor 100% of that market, Sony would be far more agressive with Vita. Which, clearly, they're not.[/QUOTE


Sony is being aggressive in Japan where they are relevant.

Not at all. PS3 took a long time before not bleeding money. As of today, it's not even sure PS3 brought all the money lost, back.]

Lol what nonsense. The PS3 and the Vita are nothing alike. The Vita is made from off shelf components that go down quickly in price. Not to mention that 48% of Vita software is bought digitally. The PS3 was selling much better than the Vita. With the abysmal Vita sales in the west Sony would killed in the west and not bothered bringing games or Vita 2000 over from Japan and making it an indie machine. That alone shows that the Vita make money for Sony, or they would have killed it in the west.

 

[Chris1964]

Media Create Sales: Week 16, 2014 (Apr 14 - Apr 20)

01./03. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 34.690 / 754.910 (+3%)
02./01. [PS3] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku-Hen <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥8.715) - 31.724 / 174.156 (-78%)
03./00. [PS4] Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Real Reborn # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.04.14} (¥3.394) - 31.326 / NEW
04./00. [3DS] Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 1-2-3: Naruhodo Selection # <ADV> (Capcom) {2014.04.17} (¥4.309) - 26.925 / NEW
05./04. [3DS] Mario Party: Island Tour <ETC> (Nintendo) {2014.03.20} (¥4.800) - 18.848 / 304.835 (-33%)
06./02. [PSV] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku-Hen <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥7.689) - 17.755 / 145.991 (-86%)
07./00. [3DS] Style Savvy: Trendsetters - Tokimeki Up! <ETC> (Nintendo) {2014.04.17} (¥4.936) - 12.315 / NEW
08./00. [PSP] Jyuzaengi: Engetsu Sangokuden 2 # <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2014.04.17} (¥6.264) - 8.499 / NEW
09./00. [3DS] Detective Conan: Phantom Rapsody <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.17} (¥6.145) - 8.336 / NEW
10./08. [PS3] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes <ADV> (Konami) {2014.03.20} (¥2.980) - 8.018 / 198.054 (-27%)
11./07. [PS3] Samurai Warriors 4 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.03.20} (¥7.560) - 6.553 / 212.619 (-52%)
12./05. [3DS] Crayon Shin-Chan: Arashi o Yobu Kasukabe Eiga Stars! <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥5.119) - 6.357 / 22.766 (-61%)
13./13. [3DS] Kirby Triple Deluxe <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.01.11} (¥4.800) - 6.218 / 553.578 (-11%)
14./15. [3DS] Pokemon X / Y # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2013.10.12} (¥4.800) - 5.315 / 4.034.629 (-12%)
15./11. [PS3] J-Stars Victory Vs # <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.03.19} (¥7.980) - 4.691 / 169.109 (-37%)
16./28. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 # <ACT> (Capcom) {2013.09.14} (¥5.990) - 4.409 / 3.260.421
17./12. [WIU] Just Dance Wii U <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.04.03} (¥6.156) - 4.367 / 29.934 (-39%)
18./16. [3DS] Fossil Fighters: Infinite Gear <RPG> (Nintendo) {2014.02.27} (¥4.800) - 4.144 / 140.178 (-30%)
19./23. [3DS] Puzzle & Dragons Z <RPG> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2013.12.12} (¥4.400) - 4.115 / 1.439.301 (-8%)
20./14. [PSV] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd <ACT> (Sega) {2014.03.27} (¥7.350) - 4.102 / 125.173 (-35%)

Top 20

3DS - 11
PS3 - 4
PSV - 2
PS4 - 1
PSP - 1
WIU - 1

HARDWARE

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS # |     19.943 |     23.562 |     75.922 |    767.689 |  1.437.904 |  15.429.609 |
| PSV # |     19.038 |     25.298 |     15.011 |    470.632 |    384.510 |   2.825.989 |
|  PS4  |     14.396 |     13.034 |            |    534.169 |            |     534.169 |
|  PS3  |      6.468 |      7.305 |     13.915 |    222.720 |    348.675 |   9.932.394 |
|  WIU  |      5.204 |      5.512 |      8.798 |    182.982 |    260.525 |   1.708.412 |
| PSP # |      2.094 |      2.027 |      7.816 |     63.242 |    234.368 |  20.131.651 |
|  360  |        240 |        229 |        515 |      4.384 |     11.091 |   1.643.700 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ALL  |     67.383 |     76.967 |    123.356 |  2.245.818 |  2.707.818 |  52.205.924 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| PSVTV |      1.133 |      1.220 |            |     30.150 |            |     106.394 |
|  PSV  |     17.905 |     24.078 |     15.011 |    440.482 |    384.510 |   2.719.595 |
| 3DSLL |     14.023 |     17.291 |     57.089 |    533.589 |    904.787 |   5.959.475 |
|  3DS  |      5.920 |      6.271 |     18.833 |    234.100 |    533.117 |   9.470.134 |
|  PSP  |      2.094 |      2.027 |      7.816 |     63.242 |    234.368 |  19.955.664 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Famitsu Sales: Week 16, 2014 (Apr 14 - Apr 20)

01./03. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 49.146 / 757.821 <80-100%> (+71%)
02./00. [PS4] Final Fantasy XIV Online: A Real Reborn # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.04.14} (¥3.394) - 34.279 / NEW <40-60%>
03./00. [3DS] Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney 1-2-3: Naruhodo Selection # <ADV> (Capcom) {2014.04.17} (¥4.309) - 26.071 / NEW <40-60%>
04./01. [PS3] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku-Hen <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥8.715) - 20.368 / 178.778 <80-100%> (-87%)
05./04. [3DS] Mario Party: Island Tour <ETC> (Nintendo) {2014.03.20} (¥4.800) - 17.588 / 310.585 <80-100%> (-38%)
06./02. [PSV] 3rd Super Robot Wars Z: Jigoku-Hen <SLG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥7.689) - 14.541 / 139.589 <80-100%> (-88%)
07./00. [3DS] Style Savvy: Trendsetters - Tokimeki Up! <ETC> (Nintendo) {2014.04.17} (¥4.936) - 12.522 / NEW <40-60%>
08./00. [PSP] Jyuzaengi: Engetsu Sangokuden 2 # <ADV> (Idea Factory) {2014.04.17} (¥6.264) - 12.135 / NEW <60-80%>
09./00. [3DS] Detective Conan: Phantom Rapsody <ADV> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.17} (¥6.145) - 8.013 / NEW <20-40%>
10./11. [3DS] Kirby Triple Deluxe <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.01.11} (¥4.800) - 7.214 / 582.206 <80-100%> (-10%)
11./08. [PS3] Samurai Warriors 4 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.03.20} (¥7.560) - 6.676 / 224.601 <80-100%> (-32%)
12./09. [PS3] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes <ADV> (Konami) {2014.03.20} (¥2.980) - 6.675 / 222.525 <80-100%> (-31%)
13./10. [WIU] Just Dance Wii U <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.04.03} (¥6.156) - 5.936 / 34.977 <40-60%> (-35%)
14./05. [3DS] Crayon Shin-Chan: Arashi o Yobu Kasukabe Eiga Stars! <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.04.10} (¥5.119) - 5.584 / 21.742 <60-80%> (-65%)
15./19. [3DS] Pokemon X / Y # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2013.10.12} (¥4.800) - 4.971 / 4.344.943 <80-100%> (-4%)
16./18. [3DS] Puzzle & Dragons Z <RPG> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2013.12.12} (¥4.400) - 4.925 / 1.376.482 <80-100%> (-7%)
17./13. [PS3] J-Stars Victory Vs # <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.03.19} (¥7.980) - 4.588 / 167.977 <80-100%> (-37%)
18./25. [3DS] Monster Hunter 4 # <ACT> (Capcom) {2013.09.14} (¥5.990) - 4.554 / 3.443.901 <80-100%> (+4%)
19./21. [WIU] Wii Party U # <ETC> (Nintendo) {2013.10.31} (¥4.935) - 4.518 / 712.936 <80-100%> (-4%)
20./24. [WIU] New Super Mario Bros. U # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2012.12.08} (¥5.985) - 4.176 / 1.135.259 <80-100%> (-5%)
21./16. [3DS] Fossil Fighters: Infinite Gear <RPG> (Nintendo) {2014.02.27} (¥4.800) - 4.142 / 146.609 <80-100%> (-29%)
22./14. [PS3] Pro Baseball Spirits 2014 <SPT> (Konami) {2014.03.20} (¥7.600) - 4.096 / 111.570 <80-100%> (-36%)
23./17. [PSV] Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd <ACT> (Sega) {2014.03.27} (¥7.350) - 3.463 / 127.537 <80-100%> (-37%)
24./30. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf # <ETC> (Nintendo) {2012.11.08} (¥4.800) - 3.421 / 4.125.367 <80-100%> (+1%)
25./20. [PSV] J-Stars Victory Vs # <FTG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2014.03.19} (¥6.980) - 3.324 / 131.475 <80-100%> (-30%)
26./27. [3DS] Harvest Moon: Linking the New World <SLG> (Marvelous AQL) {2014.02.27} (¥5.040) - 3.206 / 201.725 <80-100%> (-20%)
27./28. [3DS] Hero Bank <RPG> (Sega) {2014.03.20} (¥5.550) - 3.145 / 35.936 <60-80%> (-21%)
28./00. [PSP] Rewrite <ADV> (Prototype) {2014.04.17} (¥6.264) - 3.136 / NEW <60-80%>
29./26. [3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters 2: Iru to Ruka no Fushigi na Fushigi na Kagi # <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.02.06} (¥5.490) - 3.119 / 726.143 <80-100%> (-24%)
30./22. [PS3] Dark Souls II <RPG> (From Software) {2014.03.13} (¥7.800) - 2.959 / 326.426 <80-100%> (-35%)

Top 30

3DS - 15
PS3 - 6
PSV - 3
WIU - 3
PSP - 2
PS4 - 1

HARDWARE

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS # |     22.347 |     24.044 |     70.416 |    769.462 |  1.503.048 |  15.463.473 |
| PSV # |     18.226 |     22.865 |     14.666 |    463.719 |    371.952 |   2.738.858 |
|  PS4  |     13.034 |     12.053 |            |    532.012 |            |     532.012 |
|  PS3  |      7.569 |      8.388 |     14.893 |    226.107 |    340.183 |   9.794.607 |
|  WIU  |      5.588 |      5.693 |      8.047 |    194.677 |    255.054 |   1.713.104 |
| PSP # |      1.707 |      1.578 |      8.377 |     56.505 |    238.302 |  19.664.998 |
|  360  |        187 |        144 |        336 |      5.019 |      8.301 |   1.612.578 |
|  WII  |        161 |        178 |      1.411 |      4.993 |     31.862 |  12.743.072 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ALL  |     68.819 |     74.943 |    118.280 |  2.252.494 |  2.753.723 |  64.262.702 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  PSP  |      1.707 |      1.578 |      8.377 |     56.505 |    238.302 |  19.504.423 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Rolf NB]

They're not even making more Tales games for the system unless I missed something.

I'm still puzzled about the whole recent Tales Of Hearts R coming the west thing. If they wanted to test the waters, surely they'd start in Japan ... which they kind of already have.

 

[RM8]

Does anyone know if the Xperia tablets sell well? I own a Sony Tablet S which apparently was kind of a bomba. What I mean is, a PlayStation tablet? Is that automatically going to be a profitable product just because "tablets are popular"?

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Except for the fact that PS4 will have a much larger install base and they would more than likely pump their resources into bigger projects than what the Vita is getting.

The PS3 has a much larger base and yet games like Guacamelee and retro city rampage sold better on the vita. Install base does not matter much. Who own the system matter. Vita has a healthy attach rate.

 

[DaBoss]

Thank you Chris.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm still puzzled about the whole recent Tales Of Hearts R coming the west thing. If they wanted to test the waters, surely they'd start in Japan ... which they kind of already have.

I'm assuming Sony paid for the localization given that Shahid was bragging about achieving this on twitter.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Huh Famitsu has 3 Wii U titles charting versus media creates 1

 

[Sandfox]

The PS3 has a much larger base and yet games like Guacamelee and retro city rampage sold better on the vita. Install base does not matter much. Who own the system matter. Vita has a healthy attach rate.

Smaller/cheap titles sell well on the Vita but I see no reason to believe that a Sony title would sell less on the PS4.

 

[theprodigy]

so, about that Wii U....

Media Create:
YTD-182982 (-77543/-29.76%)

Famitsu:
YTD-194677 (-60377/-23.67%)

What's with the tracker disparity, the two trying to get their LTDs together?

 

[DaBoss]

Huh Famitsu has 3 Wii U titles charting versus media creates 1

Wii Party U and NSMBU are charting because of bundles.

 

[test_account]

SCEA has completely given up on the vita SCEA similarly but not as bad, they're releasing PS Now on Tablets and Smart phones. That's equivalent of Nintendo releasing games on iOS and androids, since the Vita's whole schtick is console games on the go. I highly, highly doubt they're making another dedicated handheld. gaming tablet sure that probably runs android, but and dedicated handheld seems unlikely given the decisions they made.

The R&D, marketing and manufacturing costs, Sony's current financial situation and the fact it's rapidly contracting market screams it would be a terrible decision. It's simply not a decision I can see someone at Sony making under good conscience. Nintendo can try again after the wiiu, they have the capital to whether the risks and it's part of the core of their company. This is not the same with sony where PSP and Vita was just another product in their portfolio.

Yeah, if Sony makes a new handheld, i think it will a cheap investment (relatively speaking). It could very well be an Android based system indeed. I'm not sure how much influence SCEA have on making new hardware though. I would assume that Sony Japan are the ones who makes these decisions, but i'm just guessing on that.

True, gaming is more important to Nintendo than Sony because Nintendo pretty much only rely on gaming, as you mention. But it really depends on what type of idea they have (goes for both Nintendo and Sony) for a potential next system and how much they believe in it. It might not be a smart business decision to keep supporting a system heavily if they believe that it wont do much good. It might be better to make something new and invest more towards that instead.

It will be interesting to see how Nintendo responds to the WiiU's atrocious sales and how Sony responds to the Vita's atrocious sales.

I don't wither of them are going to pull out of those sectors.

Same here. We probably wont know before two years from now at earliest i think.

 

[Principate]

Because of opportunity cost, big companies don't care about little profit. First of all, it's not sure Vita is profitable. And to be fair, if Sony's objective was to not give a direct competitor 100% of that market, Sony would be far more agressive with Vita. Which, clearly, they're not.[/QUOTE


Sony is being aggressive in Japan where they are relevant.



Lol what nonsense. The PS3 and the Vita are nothing alike. The Vita is made from off shelf components that go down quickly in price. Not to mention that 48% of Vita software is bought digitally. The PS3 was selling much better than the Vita. With the abysmal Vita sales in the west Sony would killed in the west and not bothered bringing games or Vita 2000 over from Japan and making it an indie machine. That alone shows that the Vita make money for Sony, or they would have killed it in the west.

Not that I'm saying your wrong but that's not a direct inference like you think it is. Vita 2000 is a cheaper to produce version. Even if it weren't making them money it would make sense to bring that over as the profit margins would be higher. And again if there was significant R&D costs in comparison to the revenue the Vita brought in, it would be Sony's best interest to recoup those costs with little opportunity cost if possible rather than write off the losses.

That's not to say it is but your evidence is far from concrete. What we do know is Sony is very secretive about everything concerning the Vita even to it's investors.. That's generally not a good thing.