Support NeoGAF

[Baki]

Magic my friend... magic


Also Red Steel 2 bombed because Mario walks on clouds now, seriously Super Mario walks on clouds

Oh snap! I knew some of those quotes looked a bit "fishy". But I didn't think people did that on GAF.

:lol

 

[Jeels]

Red Steel 2, by comparison, received a pathetic amount of advertising

Except it's been stated time and time again it didn't.

 

[Speevy]

How many great selling Wii games have you cutting someone down with a sword or graphically executing them with a gun?

 

[donny2112]

Software sales scale linearly with the installed base just at the beginning of the life cycle. When a console installed base is past the 1 units mark for the US market (and that's the case for PS3 and 360) software sales start to depend more on other factors like those you have stated.

Agreed.

Spoiler

Software sales do not scale linearly with install base for any actual install base. Beginning of the generation or not. Tastes of buyer 1 will not = Tastes of buyer 2.

Yes, I know that you can't have a line with one point.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

How many great selling Wii games have you cutting someone down with a sword or graphically executing them with a gun?

RS1 sold over a million.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

As has been said, gamers' response to releases depends on the kinds of genres and themes their platform is accustomed to, which is further affected by quality, saturation, and value.

Put simply, Nintendo didn't sell umpteen bazillion Wiis on the promise of Red Steel 2.

Another issue would be that a lot of gamers bought Wiis in the early days on the promise of something like Red Steel 2, and what they got were Red Steel 1 and other wagglefests that drove away consumers and third-party developers alike.

That first year of the Wii really hurt it in terms of third-parties. If things had gone differently, the situation today might have been quite different as well.

RS1 sold over a million.

Yeah, that's the problem. :lol

 

[Vinci]

Except it's been stated time and time again it didn't.

You appear to have missed the part where I compared it to Killzone 2.

 

[thefro]

RS2 was marketed fine. You can't really use that excuse.

It just has bad brand recognition because of the first game, no local (or online, but specifically local) multiplayer which kills Wii games, and missed Christmas where it would have done better.

Word of mouth will help, maybe even to the tune of 100k. It maybe should have done better, but advertising is not why.

I'd add lack of online hype, cel-shading (always equals less sales), bad release timing, and the fact that the game was pretty short.

Unless you wanted to read European websites, good luck finding out anything about Red Steel 2 after the initial announcement until the week of release.

Tri seems to be set up to succeed pretty well, so that will finally end this idea that 3rd party titles don't sell.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

MH3 is getting tons of ads too, hopefully that game will do better. With the GameStop pre-order disc and focus on multiplayer, I'm optimistic it'll do quite a bit better than RS2.

 

[JJConrad]

The RS2 commercial is stupid. I don't understand how they think trying to be funny will attract anyone to a game like this. It doesn't sell the game itself. Its the type of commercial you run when your only goal is getting people to remember your name. That being said... The ads didn't start running until a few days before its release, so its effect isn't going to be noticeable in the first month sales.

 

[Baki]

You appear to have missed the part where I compared it to Killzone 2.

I saw your KZ2 comparison. But I don't think thats a good comparison since KZ2 did sell 600K+ within 30 days in the US. Which was pretty fast for 1st party games at the time.

 

[Loudninja]

I seen the GOW3 ad more than any other ad really.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

This can't be quoted enough. A retail chain said there were PS3 shortages and people still try to dispute it.

Funny, in the NPD hardware prediction thread you were saying the high numbers people were posting were justified because the shortages were not that severe. I even questioned you on it and you tried to keep saying that they weren't that bad... but in this thread all of a sudden they were horrible. Make up your mind!!!![/QUOTE]

 

[Boney]

You wanted a Wii 3rd Party games debate? Well, you get it:
http://kotaku.com/5518848/red-steel-2-us-sales-at-50000-expert-says

Patcher estimates Red Steel 2 have sold 50,000 copies.

That title is horrbly misleading.

But I definately expect that from Kotaku.

 

[[Nintex]]

UPDATE: A Ubisoft spokesperson confirmed the sales figures but correctly pointed out that they are based on only a partial month's performance, as Red Steel 2 was released on March 23, less than half a month before NPD's March reporting period ended on April 3. "Considering that the NPD sales only accounted for 12 days on the store shelves and that NPD doesn't include all retailers we are looking forward to a complete month of sales data to see where we stand. "Considering that the NPD sales only accounted for 12 days on the store shelves and that NPD doesn't include all retailers we are looking forward to a complete month of sales data to see where we stand."

spin spin spin your sales
gently down the stream

 

[SolidusDave]

Valve and Crytek games require very little to no modification of there core mechanics to work on console. BF had to be turned into BC for it to work on console, and as great as BC is, it's not BF.

64 players on maps 5-10x the size of anything in BC2, with a complex chain of command ordering system simply cannot work on consoles. My only hope is that Dice is as passionate about these systems as I am and insist that it remains PC exclusive and thus can expand on the scope of BF2 and 2142.

I mean these are the guys that got the go ahead to make Mirrors Edge, keeping BF3 PC exclusive should be a cakewalk.

uhm I don't like the smaller scale of the newer BFs myself, but...:

 

[poppabk]

No... it came up because people in the thread posed the question, "Why did PS3 software sales boom through the month of March but we don't see a corresponding boom in hardware sales?" It is perfectly reasonable to address that question without being emotionally attached to any facet of the "console wars"- without referencing 360 at all, without grinding any axes- just through discussing the history of PS3 sales in a vacuum.

Thats one question that can't be answered through an appeal to shortages. The software sales are what they are given how much hardware they did sell. They didn't sell 100k's of software to people who don't own and didn't manage to buy a PS3.

 

[Baki]

Funny, in the NPD hardware prediction thread you were saying the high numbers people were posting were justified because the shortages were not that severe. I even questioned you on it and you tried to keep saying that they weren't that bad... but in this thread all of a sudden they were horrible. Make up your mind!!!!

I never said shortages were horrible in this thread, merely saying that they did exist. I also acknowledged that they existed in the NPD prediction thread.

What I did say was that post 19th of March due to the new model, shortages should not have been servere as Feb.

Regarding whether March shortages overall were more severe, you may be right. I mentioned in the prediction thread that 20th feb - 5th March was very severe. That said, I could've been wrong and I could've been right.

It was all speculation based on certain evidence.

 

[Tom Penny]

Red Steel 2 sales make me a sad panda.

They probably didn't press enough copies.

 

[thefro]

Thats one question that can't be answered through an appeal to shortages. The software sales are what they are given how much hardware they did sell. They didn't sell 100k's of software to people who don't own and didn't manage to buy a PS3.

Yep, one would presume that most people interested in FF13 or GoW3 already owned a PS3.

Same reason there isn't a big 360 HW bump anytime a new FPS is released.

 

[Mr_PinkFloyd]

FINAL FANTASY XIII PS3 SQUARE ENIX Mar-10 828.2K
FINAL FANTASY XIII 360 SQUARE ENIX Mar-10 493.9K

Not bad for a franchise shooting for irrelevancy

 

[Pooya]

Square-Enix is conducting a survey on members site

Why did you select the PS3 version?
- Prefer PS3's graphics appearance
- Controller preference
- PlayStation Trophies
- PS3 is my console of choice
- PS3 version had only one disc
- Other

Why did you select the Xbox 360 version?
- Prefer Xbox 360's graphics appearance
- Controller preference
- Achievements
- Xbox 360 is my console of choice
- Enjoy Xbox’s community when playing games like this
- Other

 

[Speevy]

FINAL FANTASY XIII PS3 SQUARE ENIX Mar-10 828.2K
FINAL FANTASY XIII 360 SQUARE ENIX Mar-10 493.9K

Not bad for a franchise shooting for irrelevancy

They shot irrelevancy in the foot.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

That said, I could've been wrong and I could've been right.

It was all speculation based on certain evidence.

But in this instance... you were wrong and I was right Certain evidence? Do you live in the reporting area?

 

[Baki]

But in this instance... you were wrong and I was right Certain evidence? Do you live in the reporting area?

You were right. I was wrong.

But to be fair, I was basing it on:

1) New models appearing on 19th March (which makes me speculate that SCE held back supply? So they didn't lose as much moolah?)

2) Late Feb - early March being really bad based on anecdotes.

The logic is sound, no?

 

[ULTROS!]

Why did you select the PS3 version?
- Prefer PS3's graphics appearance

Why did you select the Xbox 360 version?
- Prefer Xbox 360's graphics appearance

Uh... :lol

 

[dallow_bg]

spin spin spin your sales
gently down the stream

That wraps it up for RS2.

 

[Pooya]

Uh... :lol

that's ridiculous:lol . amazing there is no "360 version is on 3 discs" choice.

 

[SolidusDave]

that's ridiculous:lol . amazing there is no "360 version is on 3 discs" choice.

no "Enjoy PSN’s community when playing games like this" as well

 

[Jomjom]

I just want my 30 SE Members points!!

 

[TheUnknownForce]

As a Wii owner, I chose not to get Red Steel 2 because, quite frankly, I didn't like the design. I liked the characters, but when it came to the environment, it looked blase in comparison. Let's play in a desert town the whole game.

Without open-endedness.
Without multiplayer.

And let's name it after the poorly-reviewed prequel.

I really think it was the asethetic that hurt it more than anything. Oh and the whole "gamer" migration to HD consoles over the last two years had put a lasting damage to third party games. Better luck next generation, guys?

If/when Monster Hunter Tri fails to sell like gangbusters, Wii will pretty much be left to Nintendo and smaller developers for WiiWare and niche developers in general.

Sales won't make Nintendo move onto the next generation faster. The third-party relations will.

...

With that out of the way, congrats to GOW3, Nintendo HW, and the rest!

 

[Kagari]

Square-Enix is conducting a survey on members site

Why did you select the PS3 version?
- Prefer PS3's graphics appearance
- Controller preference
- PlayStation Trophies
- PS3 is my console of choice
- PS3 version had only one disc
- Other

Why did you select the Xbox 360 version?
- Prefer Xbox 360's graphics appearance
- Controller preference
- Achievements
- Xbox 360 is my console of choice
- Enjoy Xbox’s community when playing games like this
- Other

:lol

 

[Swittcher]

As a Wii owner, I chose not to get Red Steel 2 because, quite frankly, I didn't like the design. I liked the characters, but when it came to the environment, it looked blase in comparison. Let's play in a desert town the whole game.

Without open-endedness.
Without multiplayer.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

It's people like you, that are the problem.

 

[ShogunX]

no "Enjoy PSN’s community when playing games like this" as well

What PSN community?

 

[Sadist]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

It's people like you, that are the problem.

I think those are valid complaints.

 

[Speevy]

What PSN community?

Our community is as vast as the oceans.

What kind of "community" enjoys an entirely offline RPG?

 

[Jomjom]

What PSN community?

The one that involves me pulling out my cell phone, calling up my friend and tell him how cool Chapter 11 in FF13 is.

 

[JaxJag]

Our community is as vast as the oceans.

What kind of "community" enjoys an entirely offline RPG?

One's that use party chat with 7 other people while playing?

 

[Mt Heart Attack]

I think those are valid complaints.

They are. I enjoyed Red Steel 2, but I mean, it's no Mario Galaxy, I can totally see why people would skip it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

It's people like you, that are the problem.

err, it's okay to be picky about games

 

[Y2Kev]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

It's people like you, that are the problem.

What? Everything he listed is a pretty good reason to not buy a game.

Comma splicers are the real problem.

 

[ShogunX]

The one that involves me pulling out my cell phone, calling up my friend and tell him how cool Chapter 11 in FF13 is.

I shit you not back when the Original Resistance was released me and a friend used to sellotape our phones to our ears because our mics clashed.

Good times.

 

[dallow_bg]

One's that use party chat with 7 other people while playing?

Text chat yo!

Gives you that real RPG feel that FFXIII was lacking.

 

[SolidusDave]

One's that use party chat with 7 other people while playing?

nah, the one's that use text chat to inform 3x 15 other people when they got the trap drop.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

What? Everything he listed is a pretty good reason to not buy a game.

Comma splicers are the real problem.

I think, he had a pretty, good point.

If someone, doesn't like certain styles, of games they are, the problem.


Like you, when you weren't interested, in Red Steel 2, because it had no, gangsta, style.

 

[TheUnknownForce]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

It's people like you, that are the problem.

I'm a poor college student who has no source of income and is graduating, therefore paying for loans soon.

Red Steel 2 would have been a purchase, but I can't find myself playing in that same world for the duration.

And note that in this time I've purchased a large number of WiiWare titles, so I'm not part of the overall problem.

 

[rpmurphy]

RS2 came 2-3 years too late. Ubisoft dropped the ball on taking advantage of IP recognition. RS3 should have been the one released with MotionPlus.

 

[radjago]

Our community is as vast as the oceans.

What kind of "community" enjoys an entirely offline RPG?

Lots of them apprently.

 

[Man]

One's that use party chat with 7 other people while playing?

Thank god for Text chat. Hearing animé screams over multiple mics does not do it for me.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

I think Red Steel 2 will have a good word of mouth and hopefully that will help.

Red Steel 2 had as much TV advertising as The Conduit and Madworld, which isn't much. And advertising on Comedy Central and Cartoon Network exclusively is only showing your product to a very small portion of the Wii userbase.

You need ads on TBS, ESPN, ABC, etc.