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[Vamphuntr]

I laugh a lot when the characters try to say French words like adieu and Bleublanc but Falcom themselves are also bad at it. I mean the VA in some Ys game introduction is basically some Japanese actor trying to speak French and more often than not it's really hard to understand and it's my first language.

Keep up the good work! Really excited for the 3rd.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Immediately. The screen flickers like it's about to load the game up and then I get the message that the program has stopped working. Sometimes the game window is still in the background but it's just black. It stays there until I click on ok on the error message.

I have a pretty beefy system. Windows 10, gtx 1080, 6600k, I play on a 21:9 3440x1440p screen if any of that helps. I don't think the widescreen would be the issue as I've seen it has the support for that.

I haven't had any issues at all playing videos but if you can point me towards where I need to download the latest codecs then that would be appreciated. How do I know if I have the latest btw?

The widescreen monitor may be the culprit. Launch in windowed mode at a more popular resolution and see what happens. Also try disabling/enabling Vertex Shading and see what happens.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

You can just use K-Lite Codec Pack

The game uses pre-rendered videos for the developer logo, so that might be your problem. These older games might use a format your computer doesn't have the codecs for it

The widescreen monitor may be the culprit. Launch in windowed mode at a more popular resolution and see what happens. Also try disabling/enabling Vertex Shading and see what happens.

Neither of these worked.

With the codecs all I had to do was download and install them right?

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

This is really depressing me. Especially after seeing so many defending PC in all of those PC vs console ease of use threads and then seeing everyone and their brother recommend this game...

 

[Nyoro SF]

Neither of these worked.

With the codecs all I had to do was download and install them right?

Yeah, they're basically playback codecs. I installed CCCP myself, looks like K-Lite is a normal alternative.

I'm curious though because while I've heard of videos failing to play or playing a screwed up mess, I've never heard of the game outright crashing on startup before because of them.

I assume you know about the main Steam thread for issues?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/251150/discussions/0/38596748671200630/?ctp=107#c492379439687144584

This is really depressing me. Especially after seeing so many defending PC in all of those PC vs console ease of use threads and then seeing everyone and their brother recommend this game...

Unfortunately to say at this point, but outright crashing of this game is a very rare occurrence. I would try any suggestion possible to fix this game, but I do tell you that if PC games crashed on the regular the reception for PC gaming in general would not be as positive as it is now.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Immediately. The screen flickers like it's about to load the game up and then I get the message that the program has stopped working. Sometimes the game window is still in the background but it's just black. It stays there until I click on ok on the error message.

I had a similar problem way back when and restarting my PC fixed it... somehow...

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Yeah, they're basically playback codecs. I installed CCCP myself, looks like K-Lite is a normal alternative.

I'm curious though because while I've heard of videos failing to play or playing a screwed up mess, I've never heard of the game outright crashing on startup before because of them.

I assume you know about the main Steam thread for issues?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/251150/discussions/0/38596748671200630/?ctp=107#c492379439687144584



Unfortunately to say at this point, but outright crashing of this game is a very rare occurrence. I would try any suggestion possible to fix this game, but I do tell you that if PC games crashed on the regular the reception for PC gaming in general would not be as positive as it is now.

Yeah, I saw that and the only thing it says to do is delete the save folder as far as I know.

I had a similar problem way back when and restarting my PC fixed it... somehow...

I tried this and... Still nothing. :'(

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I laugh a lot when the characters try to say French words like adieu and Bleublanc but Falcom themselves are also bad at it. I mean the VA in some Ys game introduction is basically some Japanese actor trying to speak French and more often than not it's really hard to understand and it's my first language.

Keep up the good work! Really excited for the 3rd.

Oh gods, that Ys Origin intro... so much cringe... >__< I couldn't understand a single thing she said

 

[creid]

Yeah, I saw that and the only thing it says to do is delete the save folder as far as I know.



I tried this and... Still nothing. :'(

If it's still crashing with the opening movie turned off then I don't think it's a codec issue. I actually had a similar problem recently that I fixed by lanching the config tool and hitting the "start game" button from there - worth a shot.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

If it's still crashing with the opening movie turned off then I don't think it's a codec issue. I actually had a similar problem recently that I fixed by lanching the config tool and hitting the "start game" button from there - worth a shot.

I tried it both ways... nothing.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

For treasure chests&#8212;Jess was FC, SC was between several members in the office. Cold Steel 2 was between me and Nick.

Every groan was well earned.

In Cold Steel, there's a quest involving a certain Phantom Thief and riddles, as per series tradition. The Japanese, however, had quest markers over the locations for the riddles, so even though it was meant to be a riddle, all you had to do was open the map and see where to go next. I asked if those quest markers could be removed for that particular quest in English because, like...they're riddles. They're not difficult, but the player should try solving them on their own. Falcom was totally cool with it and did so.

Ha! Good stuff. That can render things pointless outside of a Silent Hill-style difficulty selection.

Thanks for the kind words about the series in general. And I'm glad you love Duvalie! I got the exact VA I wanted for her and was absolutely thrilled with how she turned out. My rule for her was if I wasn't laughing like I was when I played with her Japanese voice, then it wasn't going to work. Fortunately, I laughed until I cried during her recording session. And her last line in the game was...beautiful.

I about came close myself! Eden Riegel did tha lawd's work there.

Damn right. Also the VAs can't say "adieu" for shit.

I like to think of it as he's some nouveau-rich villian attempting to sound cultured by taking on this continent's "Not-French" culture, but he's just a jobber so he borks it up.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

So why is there a x 34 at the end of all of the resolution choices for me? Is that normal?

For instance my native res shows as 3440 x 1440 x 34.

 

[Nyoro SF]

So why is there a x 34 at the end of all of the resolution choices for me? Is that normal?

For instance my native res shows as 3440 x 1440 x 34.

That is not. The ender is supposed to be 16 or 32 for the color depth.

As suspected, I think your monitor and the graphics drivers involved are the culprit.

 

[Psxphile]

Maybe see if there's an update for the graphics card drivers and see if they sort themselves out?
Also tell Steam to verify your files to make sure they're not corrupted.
If all else fails lower your graphics settings or switch GPUs if any?

I remember having Hi-Resolution Fonts ticked would cause crashes but I believe that bug was squashed long ago. Also it would crash in-game rather than when it's trying to boot up.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

How so? I haven't seen anything about any subversion so far and I'm 30 hours into CS2...

No one say nuffin'; let it happen naturally.

Okay, now that I beat CS2, can anyone explain how Rean subverts anything? I don't see it.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

That is not. The ender is supposed to be 16 or 32 for the color depth.

As suspected, I think your monitor and the graphics drivers involved are the culprit.

Maybe see if there's an update for the graphics card drivers and see if they sort themselves out?
Also tell Steam to verify your files to make sure they're not corrupted.
If all else fails lower your graphics settings or switch GPUs if any?

I remember having Hi-Resolution Fonts ticked would cause crashes but I believe that bug was squashed long ago. Also it would crash in-game rather than when it's trying to boot up.

Crap, sorry I was off to eat and I miss typed. It was 32 at the end. It's weird though, just a moment ago I saw half the list with 16 at the end and the other half with 32. Now though, I only see 32 at the end of all of them. I've been trying but have no idea how to get it to show 16 again.

I've also verified my files several times and also uninstalled and reinstalled on a different drive and still the same.
My graphics card is new and I last updated the drivers just a month or so ago so surely that shouldn't be the problem right?

This is starting to drive me crazy.

 

[zakujanai]

Playing Tales of Berseria and realised that Rokuro is played by the same actor as Jusis. Arthur is played by Duke Cayenne (who also did Noctis in FFXV apparently? Never would've noticed that, pretty versatile actor). Think I noticed Laura somewhere too. I'm spending way too much of Berseria trying to spot Trails alumni.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Okay, now that I beat CS2, can anyone explain how Rean subverts anything? I don't see it.

I do not really agree with claims of subversion.

We'll see if Rean actually becomes an interesting character in CS3 (like in the Divertissement) or if they keep playing it safe, simple, and boring where fans have to fill in 90% of the blanks for him.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I do not really agree with claims of subversion.

We'll see if Rean actually becomes an interesting character in CS3 (like in the Divertissement) or if they keep playing it safe, simple, and boring where fans have to fill in 90% of the blanks for him.

Pretty much. Rean has potentials for subversion in Erebonia Part 2, at least. Normally I'd just chalk it up to wishful thinking and the only thing keeping my hope alive is how Falcom pleasantly defied my expectations with how they developed Estelle in Liberl Part 2.

 

[duckroll]

Rean subverted my expectations that Falcom was really good at writing Kiseki characters.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I think people in general throw around the terms subversion and deconstruction pretty haphazardly nowadays.

I think Rean is a different type of protagonist than both Estelle and Lloyd, both of whom are more typical hot blooded shounen protagonists, but I don't think that necessarily means he's subverting anything. He just employs a completely different set of tropes than both previous protagonists

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Rean subverted my expectations that Falcom was really good at writing Kiseki characters.

Daaaamn xD

To be fair I think the rest of the cast is pretty decently written, at least. Rean is really fucking boring though.

Playing Tales of Berseria and realised that Rokuro is played by the same actor as Jusis. Arthur is played by Duke Cayenne (who also did Noctis in FFXV apparently? Never would've noticed that, pretty versatile actor). Think I noticed Laura somewhere too. I'm spending way too much of Berseria trying to spot Trails alumni.

I instantly recognized Tiny Tina when I first heard Millium, and sure enough, Ashly Burch in the credits The other names were not familiar to me, though, but I don't watch a lot of anime or play a lot of modern/voiced JRPGs.

Some of the VA was truly terrible in this game, tbh, even when considering the often hammy dialogue. Elise, Towa and Alfin in particular, had these really annoying ultra "girly" high-pitched shrieky voices I couldn't stand.

 

[creid]

Crap, sorry I was off to eat and I miss typed. It was 32 at the end. It's weird though, just a moment ago I saw half the list with 16 at the end and the other half with 32. Now though, I only see 32 at the end of all of them. I've been trying but have no idea how to get it to show 16 again.

I've also verified my files several times and also uninstalled and reinstalled on a different drive and still the same.
My graphics card is new and I last updated the drivers just a month or so ago so surely that shouldn't be the problem right?

This is starting to drive me crazy.

New NVIDIA drivers came out this week, I'd give them a try.

You mentioned deleting the save folder but this thread mentions changing resolution after deleting the folder. I assume you've tried that?

Failing either of these, can you post a screenshot of your config screen? Something might pop out at us.

 

[binarymelon]

Is there a way to adjust the transparency of the dialogue boxes in Trails in the Sky?

 

[R_thanatos]

Rean subverted my expectations that Falcom was really good at writing Kiseki characters.

Ice cold

Euh i mean : *headpat*

 

[PK Gaming]

Yo it's time

This is a "why Rean is underrated" post

I'm making this because I fully intend to convince each and every one of you that Rean is actually an amazing character despite what you might htink, and that you've all been looking at him the wrong way. Oh man, I can totally see the reactions now:

"Rean was a good character the entire time?! Gosh, if only I had known sooner..."
"Ahhhh, so the headpats were a deconstrunction!"
"Thanks PK-sama &#9829;"

Yeah right. I'm not arrogant enough to think that my opinion is 100% correct, and I know better than to suggest that Rean doesn't really have flaws. Rean absolutely has flaws! He's an immensely selfless, immensely talented lady killer with an imouto that wants to bang him, loads of people who love and care for him and even the antagonists who love and care for him. There's no denying he's pretty archetypical, and it's a shame they don't really do much subvert it. Rean is overly selfless, and with the exception of one great instance, it's almost always framed in a positive light. A sort of "you're such a goody two shoes but that's what makes you special" thing that's common to pretty much every protagonist ever. The more unique aspects of his character (his belief that he'll never measure up) doesn't get enough exposure.

THAT SAID, I don't think people are giving him enough credit. While the aforementioned traits are an indelible part of his character, Falcom does good things with him. For starters, Rean is a fun audience surrogate. He has a sassiness that isn't overbearing, is a natural at carrying conversations, and generally strong dialogue. In story scenes, he has a refreshing assertiveness for a protagonist (rather than being someone who just reacts to things) some genuinely great moments (<-- MAJOR CS2 SPOILERS), and he's given juuust enough backstory so that he actually feels like he exists in the game's universe, rather than being just some nobody clearly there for the audience to self insert into. Yeah he's got cheesy friendship speeches up the ass, but they don't hesitate to poke fun at him for it. (<--- CS1 Spoilers) Also worth noting that his English VA absolutely KILLS IT, nailing dialogue that would ordinarily sound completely terrible (his JP VA is basically terrible in comparison, lmao).

Ultimately, while cliched and disappointing in several aspects, I don't think that Rean is actually that bad of a character in practice. I can honestly say I like Rean despite his flaws. I know that makes me a tool, but whatever! I like Estelle! I'll probably like Lloyd and that guy from 3rd too! I'd be hard pressed to suggest Rean is a great protagonist, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that he isn't a blatantly terrible one either. And with CS2's epilogue, I think he's got a genuine shot of being a great protagonist, though it's purely up in the air atm.

That's my 2 mira, PEACE

 

[Morrigan Stark]

You make some decent points. I admit I don't hate Rean, exactly. He does have a few sassy lines, which is probably what redeems him from being completely terrible. But I do dislike how much of a self-insert generic anime protag cliché he is. Estelle was a more refreshing and far superior protagonist. Outside of a few key moments, Rean is just really dull. But, I guess he isn't insufferably annoying, at least, which is a bonus for a character of that stock xD

 

[R_thanatos]

I like Rean , always have , always will .

It's just that i like some characters better.

But nobody will make a "why is eliot overrated" post

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I like Rean. I think in contrast to Estelle, who's untalented but talks a big game, Rean is someone who is undeniably talented, but lacks that self confidence that an Estelle would have. Which you like more depends on your preferences.

I think his main problem is that he's not really developed in a way that suits him. He's sort of thrust into a role more suited for an Estelle type and doesn't really get developed in a way that suits the type of character he is.

He also just has way too much going on. With Ogre, the Divine Knights, Crow and now the developments at the end of CS2. I'm hoping Falcom can really sort his issues out in Sen III in a way that finally feels satisfying and conclusive.

But nobody will make a "why is eliot overrated" post

because no one overrates him. lol

Pretty sure he's the most universally ignored party member in the game. Following the CS2 thread earlier on I remember exactly one poster using him in their party.

 

[Rhapsody]

You make some decent points. I admit I don't hate Rean, exactly. He does have a few sassy lines, which is probably what redeems him from being completely terrible. But I do dislike how much of a self-insert generic anime protag cliché he is. Estelle was a more refreshing and far superior protagonist. Outside of a few key moments, Rean is just really dull. But, I guess he isn't insufferably annoying, at least, which is a bonus for a character of that stock xD

For me he's basically if Joshua was thrown into the role of MC, without someone with a support like Estelle. He's mostly "good guy Rean" which I don't find too interesting compared to the other protagonists. Really looking forward to how he's handled in CS3. I don't dislike Rean, I think he's just alright, but CS2's end has me hoping we'll get some payoff for the shortcomings.

I like Rean , always have , always will .

It's just that i like some characters better.

But nobody will make a "why is eliot overrated" post

My friend and I finally met someone that actually disliked Elliot. Like really disliked him

Pretty sure he's the most universally ignored party member in the game. Following the CS2 thread earlier on I remember exactly one poster using him in their party.

I used Elliot back in CS1, but he wasn't used much for me in CS2. Most ignored party member for me goes to Gaius.

 

[R_thanatos]

because no one overrates him. lol

That was my point

 

[Holundrian]

Calling Estelle untalented seems kind of wrong when you have several points in both games where people do recognize her skill. At one point I'm pretty sure someone even commented on her having the aptitude to surpass Cassius with the staff.
But I guess it might be hard to notice when the masturbatory harem protagonist birth given hax powers he never spend any efforts on obtaining are classified as talent and are contrasted with it.

Spoiler

I'm overly facetious for my own amusement don't take it too seriously.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I used Elliot back in CS1, but he wasn't used much for me in CS2. Most ignored party member for me goes to Gaius.

Gaius is notoriously underrated tbh

Hope he gets his shine on in Sen III and stunts on all you non believers.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Calling Estelle untalented seems kind of wrong when you have several points in both games where people do recognize her skill. At one point I'm pretty sure someone event commented on her having the aptitude to surpass Cassius with the staff.

That's just your standard politeness and compliments (across all games) I wouldn't read too much into it.

I do agree that Estelle isn't untalented, it's just that standing next to Joshua she looks untalented.

Gaius is notoriously underrated tbh

Hope he gets his shine on in Sen III and stunts on all you non believers.

Everyone likes Gaius, they just think he didn't get enough screentime and good dialogue.

 

[preta]

Gaius is notoriously underrated tbh

Hope he gets his shine on in Sen III and stunts on all you non believers.

Everyone likes Gaius, they just think he didn't get enough screentime and good dialogue.

I would frankly be very surprised if Gaius doesn't have a significantly bigger role in CS3.

 

[Holundrian]

That's just your standard politeness and compliments (across all games) I wouldn't read too much into it.

I really don't think so. I very much get the feeling that if Kiseki ever progresses another 10 years in that world she definitely has what it takes to be a name of the likes of Sara if not more. She's definitely not your average joe. Kinda silly to even suggest that given the several remarks on her potential skill + the stuff she's been through and has overcome.

 

[Rhapsody]

Everyone likes Gaius, they just think he didn't get enough screentime and good dialogue.

Yeah, he definitely wasn't a bad character. But I didn't like sticking him in my party for dialogue purposes when it was mostly wind stuff lol. Plus I don't think he was that useful in battle for me compared to other characters.

My post was mostly referring to putting him in my party tbh.

 

[Psxphile]

Unlike apparently most people here I use all of my party members equally, Elliot included. He and Emma get rotated often as my main AoE art spell casters and healers. Even Gaius was included, I tricked him out to make sure he could make viable contributions to a battle.

No one left behind.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I think Estelle grows a lot during the games and develops ability through hard work once she's forced to mature a bit.

But at the start of FC I think it's fair to say she's portrayed as an arch typical shounen dropout(I HATE TESTS. UGH I have to take NOTES) and is carried most of the game by Joshua.

I think that's what makes her more compelling and generally well received than Rean to most people. Her growth is a lot more discernible. Both in terms of ability and personality.

 

[PK Gaming]

Calling Estelle untalented seems kind of wrong when you have several points in both games where people do recognize her skill. At one point I'm pretty sure someone even commented on her having the aptitude to surpass Cassius with the staff.
But I guess it might be hard to notice when the masturbatory harem protagonist birth given hax powers he never spend any efforts on obtaining are classified as talent and are contrasted with it.

Spoiler

I'm overly facetious for my own amusement don't take it too seriously.

Untalented isn't the word i'd use to describe Estelle, but she's definitely "ordinary." She heavily contrasts with people like Joshua and Cassius (the latter who i'm led to believe is basically Jesus) with her average intelligence, lack of experience and lack of special abilities. It's really awesome, because she helps sell the "rookie adventurer vibe" that FC has, and her slow growth is legitimately one of the best parts of the game.

 

[Holundrian]

Untalented isn't the word i'd use to describe Estelle, but she's definitely "ordinary." She heavily contrasts with people like Joshua and Cassius (the latter who i'm led to believe is basically Jesus) with her average intelligence, lack of experience and lack of special abilities. It's really awesome, because she helps sell the "rookie adventurer vibe" that FC has, and her slow growth is legitimately one of the best parts of the game.

Nah I really don't get how people can call her ordinary. That's just not the case just based off on the stuff she manages to defeat or match at 16. That's just silly. I feel like people are kind of losing sight on what average in Kiseki is when everyone is overexposed to all these other crazy people. Like ordinary in Kiseki are like your average soldier or maybe the deliquents in Ruan.

But yeah I'm also not saying she rivals the likes of Cassius who has like ~30 years of experience on her or Joshua who's abilities are partly a result of the experiments and modification he went through(similar to Renne).

Like what's next whole of class 7 except Rean is ordinary cause everyone else false short not possessing spiritual awakening and having a divine knight?

Maybe to put it more into perspective I very much see her as Laura's equal with staff instead of sword.

 

[StarSketch]

I can't really pitch in on the Rean conversation because I've only played 15 minutes of CS. but I am noticing the subtle growth on Estelle, as I play through Sky (my play through is actually right behind PK's) which is pretty cool.

Currently wondering when the other shoe on Joshua's stuff is gonna drop though.

 

[PK Gaming]

Nah I really don't get how people can call her ordinary. That's just not the case just based off on the stuff she manages to defeat or match at 16. That's just silly. I feel like people are kind of losing sight on what average in Kiseki is when everyone is overexposed to all these other crazy people. Like ordinary in Kiseki are like your average soldier or maybe the deliquents in Ruan.

But yeah I'm also not saying she rivals the likes of Cassius who has like ~30 years of experience on her or Joshua who's abilities are partly a result of the experiments and modification he went through(similar to Renne).

I know feat wise she's pretty incredible on paper, but i'm talking about the vibe the game is trying to sell in relation to her character arc... she's very much a rookie learning the ropes. We're talking about a girl who initially set Joshua and Schera back by blabbing to the military about classified, the girl who's main policy was "beat shit up, ask questions never" and someone who often has to be told what to do in delicate situations (which she herself laments) and so on. Estelle is very unpolished initially, but that's fine because her growth is entirely about developing into this amazing bracer through her experiences. I know it's mostly present in SC, but you see it happen in FC as well.

 

[Holundrian]

I know feat wise she's pretty incredible on paper, but i'm talking about the vibe the game is trying to sell in relation to her character arc... she's very much a rookie learning the ropes. We're talking about a girl who initially set Joshua and Schera back by blabbing to the military about classified, the girl who's main policy was "beat shit up, ask questions never" and someone who often has to be told what to do in delicate situations (which she herself laments) and so on. Estelle is very unpolished initially, but that's fine because her growth is entirely about developing into this amazing bracer through her experiences. I know it's mostly present in SC, but you see it happen in FC as well.

I'm not debating the vibe the games are selling or saying she's an unrivaled genius.
I'm saying if you think Estelle is not talented in her own right you have not payed attention to what the average goons skill in Kiseki is.

Again repeating in here cause I'm bad at gathering my thoughts sometimes which leads to several edits that might get skipped. But I very much see Estelle as Laura's equal just with a staff instead of a sword. And I assume most people do think of Laura as someone that will turn into an amazingly capable person of her own right? Both have amazing dads, both are hard working but I also very much believe both are talented.

Just cause they haven't been born with sharingans or bloodline limits doesn't mean they're ordinary. *sry for that joke reference*

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I like Rean. I think in contrast to Estelle, who's untalented but talks a big game, Rean is someone who is undeniably talented, but lacks that self confidence that an Estelle would have. Which you like more depends on your preferences.

Part of Rean's "talent" is some sort of inner power BS though. Estelle's talent (and later, her maturity) was ALL acquired through training and hard work. That makes her far more interesting.

Pretty sure he's the most universally ignored party member in the game. Following the CS2 thread earlier on I remember exactly one poster using him in their party.

I used him lots in CS1. I liked his regen/healing abilities, he was a pretty good support character, but he eventually got replaced with Emma.

In CS2 I mostly ignored him for half the game lol. For healin/support I'd use Emma, Alisa (Heavenly Rain OP) or Jusis (though only the latter for for Platinum shield).

Calling Estelle untalented seems kind of wrong when you have several points in both games where people do recognize her skill. At one point I'm pretty sure someone even commented on her having the aptitude to surpass Cassius with the staff.
But I guess it might be hard to notice when the masturbatory harem protagonist birth given hax powers he never spend any efforts on obtaining are classified as talent and are contrasted with it.

Spoiler

I'm overly facetious for my own amusement don't take it too seriously.

No need to be apologetic, you are 100% right

I do agree that Estelle isn't untalented, it's just that standing next to Joshua she looks untalented.

See above re: Rean, most of Joshua's "talent" is innate/experimented-on-as-child-now-supersoldier BS. Unfair comparison

Everyone likes Gaius, they just think he didn't get enough screentime and good dialogue.

I don't like Gaius. He looks cool but that's all he has going for him. He's incredibly dull personality-wise, his dialogue is all boring "the winds, the goddess" talk, and in battle his abilities are nothing special. I literally never used him outside of obligatory section. He's my least used character outside of maybe Millium...

I mean I couldn't stand Alisa for most of CS1, but I still like her more than Gaius, lol. At least her interactions with her mom are entertaining enough.

 

[StarSketch]

Wasn't there a power ranking of all the major characters posted earlier in thread that had Estelle way at the bottom, with only Lloyd lower than her?

It's not that Estelle isn't talented, it's that she's surrounded by people who outclass her.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I know feat wise she's pretty incredible on paper, but i'm talking about the vibe the game is trying to sell in relation to her character arc... she's very much a rookie learning the ropes. We're talking about a girl who initially set Joshua and Schera back by blabbing to the military about classified, the girl who's main policy was "beat shit up, ask questions never" and someone who often has to be told what to do in delicate situations (which she herself laments) and so on. Estelle is very unpolished initially, but that's fine because her growth is entirely about developing into this amazing bracer through her experiences. I know it's mostly present in SC, but you see it happen in FC as well.

Yeah exactly.

and even by the end of the games, I think Estelle's most remarkable trait wasn't in terms of combat ability or her skill as a bracer, but purely her interpersonal skills. It's her ability to touch people with her naive words that allows her to make a big impact within the narrative.

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm not debating the vibe the games are selling or saying she's an unrivaled genius.
I'm saying if you think Estelle is not talented in her own right you have not payed attention to what the average goons skill in Kiseki is.

Again repeating in here cause I'm bad at gathering my thoughts sometimes which leads to several edits that might get skipped. But I very much see Estelle as Laura's equal just with a staff instead of a sword. And I assume most people do think of Laura as someone that will turn into an amazingly capable person of her own right? Both have amazing dads, both are hard working but I also very much believe both are talented.

Just cause they haven't been born with sharingans or bloodline limits doesn't mean they're ordinary. *sry for that joke reference*

Right, sorry. I was mostly talking about whether she was ordinary or not. Relative to Liberl she's undeniably pretty talented, but in the world of bracers and adventuring she has a lot growing up to do.

Laura is very much the same.

 

[Holundrian]

Wasn't there a power ranking of all the major characters posted earlier in thread that had Estelle way at the bottom, with only Lloyd lower than her?

It's not that Estelle isn't talented, it's that she's surrounded by people who outclass her.

Basically what I'm saying. She holds her own against most in her age class that would classify as pretty special I would say.
The few that outclass her in her own age class have very unique circumstances surrounding them from genetic modification to living on the battlefield since even before being a teenager.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Wasn't there a power ranking of all the major characters posted earlier in thread that had Estelle way at the bottom, with only Lloyd lower than her?

It's not that Estelle isn't talented, it's that she's surrounded by people who outclass her.

People seem really fixated on that word. lol

I merely meant she doesn't have any special skills or latent ability. I think she works hard and improves a lot, but at the end of the games still only reaches a level that's average for her profession. I think she's at a level where people like Schera, Agate, Grant, Karna etc are no longer her seniors, but her peers. (Although in terms of fighting strength I personally think she'd still be below most of them)

I meant to illustrate how her starting point compares relative to Rean, whom early on in CS1 is characterized as being exceptionally skillful and insightful(he sees through the meaning of Sara's tests) and has latent abilities that make him world class even within the scope of Kiseki power levels.

They're basically inverses of each other in terms of talent and personality I feel. That's all I meant to demonstrate with the use of the word