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[evolution]

I think UC3 is great as a TPS mostly because of the multi-player. Gears is just a little to restrictive and limited for me. I just prefer the more free-form nature of drakes movements.

 

[Ra1den]

For this generation? Vanquish, and when at its best the Gears series.

Uncharted works, but it's the sum total of parts that makes the experience as attractive and enjoyable as it is, as far as I'm concerned. The investment into well written and likeable characters, an enjoyable plot, sense of adventure and environment progression, and gorgeous graphics and presentation.

But on a purely mechanical level I don't really consider the Uncharted series able to hold a candle to the pure third person shooters. Uncharted 1 in particular is rank with shitty collision detection, weird aiming, and a botched cover system. Uncharted 2 is significantly more polished, but I still don't like the feel of the guns and the hit boxes still lack the tightness and precision of a game like Vanquish. I also don't really like Naughty Dog's enemy encounter and level design.

I don't rate Uncharted as a bad shooter, just not a particularly amazing one. If someone were to ask my recommendation of a pure third person shooter, where the hook of the game is tight, polished and balanced third person shooting, I wouldn't even consider Uncharted. But if they wanted something more, especially something that delivers on story and adventure, I would.

OK, but Uncharted is more than 3rd person shooter, with the platforming aspects, as you are aware. So why compare it to straight 3rd person shooters? Whatever genre you would call it, it is the top of it.

Also, I don't see how the level design could be better. Uncharted 2's level designs were absolute brilliance.

 

[EatChildren]

OK, but Uncharted is more than 3rd person shooter, with the platforming aspects, as you are aware. So why compare it to straight 3rd person shooters? Whatever genre you would call it, it is the top of it.

Which is why I specified quite clearly that I was referring specifically to the parts that are relatable to that of a third person shooter, and made it equally clear that I was not referring to the total package of Uncharted as defined by its third person shooting.

However, Uncharted is enough of a third person shooter for me to naturally compare the significant portions of the game where you shoot in third person to other games that have you shooting in third person, and thus criticising the game and series in areas where I feel it could be improved.

What other genre would you prefer I compare it to? 'Heavily scripted narrative driven cinematic third person shooters with emphasis on thematic adventuring'? Of course Uncharted is the best at doing what Uncharted does, it's goddamn Uncharted. But like every game it's also a total of parts that individually can and should be analysed and criticised for flaws they may have.

 

[Ra1den]

Which is why I specified quite clearly that I was referring specifically to the parts that are relatable to that of a third person shooter, and made it equally clear that I was not referring to the total package of Uncharted as defined by its third person shooting.

However, Uncharted is enough of a third person shooter for me to naturally compare the significant portions of the game where you shoot in third person to other games that have you shooting in third person, and thus criticising the game and series in areas where I feel it could be improved.

What other genre would you prefer I compare it to? 'Heavily scripted narrative driven cinematic third person shooters with emphasis on thematic adventuring'? Of course Uncharted is the best at doing what Uncharted does, it's goddamn Uncharted. But like every game it's also a total of parts that individually can and should be analysed and criticised for flaws they may have.

Apologies for not being clear...I am referring to how this discussion came up in the first place, which is that even if games should be reviewed based on how they stack up to other games of the same genre, then Uncharted still ranks at the top.

You mentioned how as a 3rd person shooter it is not at the top, and that the sum of it's parts is the attraction...but why does that matter when discussing whether it is at the top of its genre or not, since it is not a straight 3rd person shooter.

I can say this differently. If Uncharted is given an 8/10 based on how good of a straight 3rd person shooter it is, that is not fair, since that is not all it is.

 

[Metalmurphy]

For this generation? Vanquish, and when at its best the Gears series.

Uncharted works, but it's the sum total of parts that makes the experience as attractive and enjoyable as it is, as far as I'm concerned. The investment into well written and likeable characters, an enjoyable plot, sense of adventure and environment progression, and gorgeous graphics and presentation.

But on a purely mechanical level I don't really consider the Uncharted series able to hold a candle to the pure third person shooters. Uncharted 1 in particular is rank with shitty collision detection, weird aiming, and a botched cover system. Uncharted 2 is significantly more polished, but I still don't like the feel of the guns and the hit boxes still lack the tightness and precision of a game like Vanquish. I also don't really like Naughty Dog's enemy encounter and level design.

I don't rate Uncharted as a bad shooter, just not a particularly amazing one. If someone were to ask my recommendation of a pure third person shooter, where the hook of the game is tight, polished and balanced third person shooting, I wouldn't even consider Uncharted. But if they wanted something more, especially something that delivers on story and adventure, I would.

I don't understand this, specially when you specifically mention "on a purely mechanical level". I can see how you can complain about a lack of variety as far as the combat goes, when all you have are humans, and your up against aliens and monsters, then you're pretty limited and you're gonna come up short.

But as far as actual mechanics goes I don't see what puts Gears, for example, on another level. Infact, I'd put Uncharted above it. The gunplay in Uncharted is fantastic. Weapons actually have feeling, with proper beefy sound effects, adequate recoil for each weapon, they have impact. I don't get this feeling when I play Gears. I also think the cover system mechanics are better in Uncharted. I can easily traverse around a certain area and move from cover to cover alot faster and snappier then I could in Gears, going around or over something to punch someone in the face and then immediately go into cover without breaking the pace.

I have no complains about the combat in Uncharted.

 

[EatChildren]

But as far as actual mechanics goes I don't see what puts Gears, for example, on another level. Infact, I'd put Uncharted above it. The gunplay in Uncharted is fantastic. Weapons actually have feeling, with proper beefy sound effects, adequate recoil for each weapon, they have impact. I don't get this feeling when I play Gears. I also think the cover system mechanics are better in Uncharted. I can easily traverse around a certain area and move from cover to cover alot faster and snappier then I could in Gears.

Not much that I can say other than I disagree *shrug*. I personally think the aiming, feel of weapons, accuracy, hit detection and cover system of Gears is better than Uncharted.

Ironically I don't really like Gears as a franchise though, and as a whole prefer Uncharted. The whole dudebro meathead thing and fuck ugly art direction kills Gears for me .

 

[Metalmurphy]

Not much that I can say other than I disagree *shrug*. I personally think the aiming, feel of weapons, accuracy, hit detection and cover system of Gears is better than Uncharted.

Ironically I don't really like Gears as a franchise though, and as a whole prefer Uncharted. The whole dudebro meathead thing and fuck ugly art direction kills Gears for me .

Well, accuracy is kinda relative, weapons in Gears are infact alot more accurate, but while this might be a good thing for some, it's not for me, it just doesn't feel right. I've always enjoyed some realism or semi-realism so I'm used to some proper recoil and less then perfect accuracy in weapons.

I don't get the hit detection though, in gears I can empty a clip on an enemy from his feet to his head see almost no reaction, until he reaches a certain HP, and at that point he flinches. Tratatatata flinch Tratatata flinch. In Uncharted they react to every bullet, which also goes with the "feel" you get when using weapons, like they have more impact.

 

[Shai-Tan]

I wonder if I feel different because I come from PC. I like Uncharted because the reticule feels more loose than series like Gears and it's easier to pre aim head shots from cover. I usually feel like I'm fighting the controls compared to kb/mouse in shooters on consoles but I enjoy the feel of the combat in Uncharted for some reason.

 

[Wario64]

Wired: 8/10

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/10/uncharted-3-review/


WIRED Gripping story, lovable characters, superlative graphics, thrilling gunfights and platform segments, jaw-dropping setpieces.

TIRED Little room for experimentation during the game’s biggest moments, predictable tropes

 

[LiK]

Wired: 8/10

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/10/uncharted-3-review/


WIRED Gripping story, lovable characters, superlative graphics, thrilling gunfights and platform segments, jaw-dropping setpieces.

TIRED Little room for experimentation during the game’s biggest moments, predictable tropes

*tears*

 

[YuriLowell]

8.0 is the new 8.8

 

[whatevermort]

Wired: 8/10

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/10/uncharted-3-review/


WIRED Gripping story, lovable characters, superlative graphics, thrilling gunfights and platform segments, jaw-dropping setpieces.

TIRED Little room for experimentation during the game’s biggest moments, predictable tropes

The review actually reads harsher than the 8 as well. I expected a 6 from the text. They really don't like how out-of-the-player's-control the game is.

 

[Shai-Tan]

will wait until I play myself but it seems to me it's some of the criticisms I have of 2 that they're too afraid to let the player fail in any way

 

[Ra1den]

TIRED Little room for experimentation during the game’s biggest moments

If those same portions were cutscenes instead, would they be happier? There is tons of great gameplay to be had, and in most other games, those same moments would be cutscenes. And ironically, they probably would have scored it higher in that case. A fine example of how idiotic VG reviewers can be.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Wired: 8/10

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/10/uncharted-3-review/


WIRED Gripping story, lovable characters, superlative graphics, thrilling gunfights and platform segments, jaw-dropping setpieces.

TIRED Little room for experimentation during the game’s biggest moments, predictable tropes

Short review, but he makes his likes and dislikes well known, and is similar to Eurogamer, in that he doesn't like the lack of player interaction. The big desert at the end of the review really just encapsulates his main issue with the title; its big, its beautiful, but at the same time its all very empty. You, the player, just march forward like the developer tells you to do, watch the cutscenes, funny one-liner, etc.

 

[Gvaz]

If those same portions were cutscenes instead, would they be happier? There is tons of great gameplay to be had, and in most other games, those same moments would be cutscenes. And ironically, they probably would have scored it higher in that case. A fine example of how idiotic VG reviewers can be.

No because they'd be upset about watching cutscenes. How is a game a game when you're just strung along for the ride?

 

[Ra1den]

No because they'd be upset about watching cutscenes. How is a game a game when you're just strung along for the ride?

So games should not have plots, or if they do, should always have an inconspicuous role, check.

 

[vulva]

If those same portions were cutscenes instead, would they be happier? There is tons of great gameplay to be had, and in most other games, those same moments would be cutscenes. And ironically, they probably would have scored it higher in that case. A fine example of how idiotic VG reviewers can be.

That's a really dumb attitude. When I play a game, I'm hoping that I can actually decide what my character does, not just sit there for the ride. Whether it's an in game scripted sequence or a cutscene, I'm bored if I'm not doing anything on my own.

When I played Uncharted 2, I skipped as many cut scenes as it would let me, since I just wanted the gameplay. The scripted events like making me climb a train without any real thought (twice) really grated on me. If that had been a cut scene, I guess I would have been happier that I could skip it but ultimately that won't win marks by clouding it with less interactivity

So games should not have plots, or if they do, should always have an inconspicuous role, check.

Last I checked, you can have a plot without just filling it with cut scenes.

 

[M.D]

That's a really dumb attitude. When I play a game, I'm hoping that I can actually decide what my character does, not just sit there for the ride. Whether it's an in game scripted sequence or a cutscene, I'm bored if I'm not doing anything on my own.

When I played Uncharted 2, I skipped as many cut scenes as it would let me, since I just wanted the gameplay. The scripted events like making me climb a train without any real thought (twice) really grated on me. If that had been a cut scene, I guess I would have been happier that I could skip it but ultimately that won't win marks by clouding it with less interactivity



Last I checked, you can have a plot without just filling it with cut scenes.

So how do you want the story to be told?

 

[Ra1den]

That's a really dumb attitude. When I play a game, I'm hoping that I can actually decide what my character does, not just sit there for the ride. Whether it's an in game scripted sequence or a cutscene, I'm bored if I'm not doing anything on my own.

When I played Uncharted 2, I skipped as many cut scenes as it would let me, since I just wanted the gameplay. The scripted events like making me climb a train without any real thought (twice) really grated on me. If that had been a cut scene, I guess I would have been happier that I could skip it but ultimately that won't win marks by clouding it with less interactivity



Last I checked, you can have a plot without just filling it with cut scenes.

You can do things in cutscenes or highly scripted gameplay sequences that you cannot do in open ended settings. You are looking only at the drawbacks, and not the benefits.

 

[Gvaz]

You can do things in cutscenes or highly scripted gameplay sequences that you cannot do in open ended settings. You are looking only at the drawbacks, and not the benefits.

If you can do something in a cutscene, I want to be able to do it as a player

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutscenePowerToTheMax

 

[wrighty86]

PC world have posted an excellent article on the now famous Eurogamer piece.

Here is an exert:

But Uncharted was never angling for Mario or Tomb Raider's M.O., much less Grand Theft Auto's. It's neither a platform nor a freeform game, where the challenge lies in exacting spatial estimates and edgewise balance, or crafting one of any number of solutions to punitive acrobatic challenges. In terms of this game's action sequences (to say nothing of the freeform gunplay), it wants you to succeed because that's the kind of game it is, which is to say, not a hideously difficult one. If you prefer that sort of game, see Dark Souls, which banishes authorial narrative—in which the design team's narrative rules are more mechanically felt—entirely.

But authorial narrative isn't intrinsically bad unless you're the sort of gamer who hates authorial narrative, or perhaps views gaming as reaching its apotheosis in something like "pure play," i.e. an infinite melange of seamlessly articulated and integrated choices. If you prefer that, fair enough, but understand that gaming, like observing, reading, or listening in relation to any form of art, isn't an either or proposition.

This guy pretty much articulate my opinion on those critisizing Uncharteds gameplay. It is what it is, if you dont like those types of games, it doesnt make the game bad, its just not your bag.

Heres a link

 

[Ridley327]

You can do things in cutscenes or highly scripted gameplay sequences that you cannot do in open ended settings. You are looking only at the drawbacks, and not the benefits.

As the review describes it, the desert scene is nothing more than pushing the analog stick in one direction and waiting for the scripts to occur. That sounds about as interactive as moving and zooming the cutscene camera in a MGS or Team Ico title.

 

[Gvaz]

As the review describes it, the desert scene is nothing more than pushing the analog stick in one direction and waiting for the scripts to occur. That sounds about as interactive as moving and zooming the cutscene camera in a MGS or Team Ico title.

That reminds me of FF13. *cutscene* push stick forward for 2 seconds *another cutscene*

*realizes you haven't really done anything gameplay wise for an hour*

 

[Ra1den]

As the review describes it, the desert scene is nothing more than pushing the analog stick in one direction and waiting for the scripts to occur. That sounds about as interactive as moving and zooming the cutscene camera in a MGS or Team Ico title.

OK, so think of that as little more than a slightly interactive cutscene. In fact, think of it as an actual cutscene. Now, how much excellent gameplay is there to be had? Plenty. Instead of basing review scores on what could have been, they should be based on what they ARE.

 

[Ridley327]

OK, so think of that as little more than a slightly interactive cutscene. In fact, think of it as an actual cutscene. Now, how much excellent gameplay is there to be had? Plenty. Instead of basing review scores on what could have been, they should be based on what they ARE.

From the text, it sounds like the reviewer was disappointed in how often the game goes into autopilot, such as that sequence. How is that not worth mentioning alongside the actual game parts?

 

[Pranay]

I don't understand this, specially when you specifically mention "on a purely mechanical level". I can see how you can complain about a lack of variety as far as the combat goes, when all you have are humans, and your up against aliens and monsters, then you're pretty limited and you're gonna come up short.

But as far as actual mechanics goes I don't see what puts Gears, for example, on another level. Infact, I'd put Uncharted above it. The gunplay in Uncharted is fantastic. Weapons actually have feeling, with proper beefy sound effects, adequate recoil for each weapon, they have impact. I don't get this feeling when I play Gears. I also think the cover system mechanics are better in Uncharted. I can easily traverse around a certain area and move from cover to cover alot faster and snappier then I could in Gears, going around or over something to punch someone in the face and then immediately go into cover without breaking the pace.

I have no complains about the combat in Uncharted.

Spot on
Platforming elements gels so well with the shooting, it just makes it more awesome

 

[Pranay]

As the review describes it, the desert scene is nothing more than pushing the analog stick in one direction and waiting for the scripts to occur. That sounds about as interactive as moving and zooming the cutscene camera in a MGS or Team Ico title.

#facepalm#

you need to play it to understand how the scene is


Remember when we first arrived in the village in tibet ? The only thing to do at the beginning was following tenzin who took us to the old man.

Did most players feels that they were just moving foward with an analog stick or were they in awe seeing the village and the surrounding

 

[smallios74]

As the review describes it, the desert scene is nothing more than pushing the analog stick in one direction and waiting for the scripts to occur. That sounds about as interactive as moving and zooming the cutscene camera in a MGS or Team Ico title.

Sounds a bit like the Mwave bit in MGS4, tapping one button to get to the end, simple but prob one of the most memorable gaming moments this Gen.

 

[EloquentM]

All third person shooters from this moment forward should get 8.0s because of linearity.

 

[Ra1den]

From the text, it sounds like the reviewer was disappointed in how often the game goes into autopilot, such as that sequence. How is that not worth mentioning alongside the actual game parts?

It is absurd because had those sequences been completely hands off, as in a cutscene, they likely would have had no problem with them. ND wanted to spice things up a bit and give you a bit of control, even if it is superficial. It is not any "worse" than a cutscene, and it is slightly more engaging...but they are looking at those sequences as though they are main gameplay sequences, when they obviously are not. If they have a problem with the actual gameplay, the platforming and shooting, that's a whole different thing.

If you can do something in a cutscene, I want to be able to do it as a player

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CutscenePowerToTheMax

Great, I want that as well, but surely you see how absurd it is to think it is possible with current technology and more importantly, budgetary constraints. Given X amount of dollars, two developers, one making a more linear game, and one a more open ended game, can each achieve things the other cannot achieve as effectively.

 

[Ridley327]

#facepalm#

you need to play it to understand how the scene is


Remember when we first arrived in the village in tibet ? The only thing to do at the beginning was following tenzin who took us to the old man.

Did most players feels that they were just moving foward with an analog stick or were they in awe seeing the village and the surrounding

I wasn't a big fan of that scene, either.

 

[Pranay]

I wasn't a big fan of that scene, either.

Such Levels are meant for experience, rather what you do in it.

Moving to different location in SoTC was a graet experience for me


i have nothing to say more

also at the wired review if they want expiramentation of big set pieces

 

[Ridley327]

Err Then i have nothing to say.

also at the wired review if they want expiramentation of big set pieces

There's nothing malicious about what the reviewer is saying, though; it's a valid criticism and one that's become more and more prevalent as games try to outdo one another. When does relinquishing control for these kinds of "controlled moments" go too far? It's not a horrible idea in theory, but the practice needs some work.

Incidentally, one of my all-time favorite gaming moments is a "controlled moment" that occurs at the end of MGS3, when (MASSIVE SPOILERS)

Spoiler

The Boss' death scene appears to end a bit early, the letterbox bars disappear and you have control again and you, the player, must put her out of her misery.

It's an unexpected, shocking and surprisingly satisfying moment that wouldn't work as well in any other way.

 

[Fratkabula]

Its the third of the series. And which third of a series, has taken another direction which the first two already haven't?

Not God Of War, Gears, Resistance, Mass Effect, COD, Battlefield, GTA, Oblivion, Halo, Metal Gear, Diablo, Bioshock, Killzone, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Saints Row, Quake, etc.

Naughty Dog, GAF doesn't know what its talking about, as always. Ignore them.

 

[Ridley327]

I'm not sure which MGS3 you played, but it was a pretty damn big departure from the previous two games.

And Fallout? Reaaaaaaaaaaally?

 

[Ra1den]

When does relinquishing control for these kinds of "controlled moments" go too far? It's not a horrible idea in theory, but the practice needs some work.

In a story and "cinematic action" based series like Uncharted, "too far" is something that is nowhere near being reached. If one of the the main points of the game is to deliver this sort of scripted(and thereby more cinematic) experiecne, why would an abundance of these things be problematic? With the scene in question, it could have only been either a cutscene, or how it is now. Would the cutscene have been better?

If we were dealing with a game with a mediocre story and acting that was primarily gameplay focused (like the overwhelming majority of games), then frequently having such interruptions would be going "too far." This is of course not the case with the UC series.

 

[krameriffic]

Apologies for not being clear...I am referring to how this discussion came up in the first place, which is that even if games should be reviewed based on how they stack up to other games of the same genre, then Uncharted still ranks at the top.

You mentioned how as a 3rd person shooter it is not at the top, and that the sum of it's parts is the attraction...but why does that matter when discussing whether it is at the top of its genre or not, since it is not a straight 3rd person shooter.

I can say this differently. If Uncharted is given an 8/10 based on how good of a straight 3rd person shooter it is, that is not fair, since that is not all it is.

So basically you're saying it shouldn't be compared to other games with third person shooting just because it does other things than third person shooting? By that logic, the entire notion of genres goes out the window and you literally can't compare any two games. I can't compare Arkham Asylum with Arkham City, AC has an open world and AA doesn't!

 

[kayos90]

Wow, based on his review I thought he was going to give the game like a C or something. From the way he wrote the review, it seems like his big disappointment comes from the fact that the designer holds your hand throughout most of the game and doesn't leave the player to have the experience that they craft instead, makes the cutscenes interactive to make it seem like they have control. I feel like while Uncharted 2 did really well, we're at the point where it's getting sort of old and I can sort of share how this author feels like. Honestly, I thought this was a well written review with definite valid points such as the set piece interactions having no punishment. If it wasn't for the fact that the exploration is curves and jumping from ledge to ledge, it would be extremely linear. While it was cool at first with Uncharted 1 and 2, I think the reviewer thinks it's getting old.

 

[Ashes]

Its the third of the series. And which third of a series, has taken another direction which the first already two haven't?

Not God Of War, Gears, Resistance, Mass Effect, COD, Battlefield, GTA, Oblivion, Halo, Metal Gear, Diablo, Bioshock, Killzone, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Saints Row, Quake, etc.

Naughty Dog, GAF doesn't know what its talking about, as always. Ignore them.

What are you talking about exactly? Are you just listing games without explanation? Resistance should most definitely not be on the same list. Mass effect 3 isn't even out. Assasins creed 1 and two are very different games.
Bioshock 1 and two feel very different and the third one isn't even out.

 

[kayos90]

In a story and "cinematic action" based series like Uncharted, "too far" is something that is nowhere near being reached. If one of the the main points of the game is to deliver this sort of scripted(and thereby more cinematic) experiecne, why would an abundance of these things be problematic? With the scene in question, it could have only been either a cutscene, or how it is now. Would the cutscene have been better?

If we were dealing with a game with a mediocre story and acting that was primarily gameplay focused (like the overwhelming majority of games), then frequently having such interruptions would be going "too far." This is of course not the case with the UC series.

The problem is that the experience gives the illusion of the player having control in these wonderful setpiece moments but in reality it's just an interactive cutscene that is sort of like a quicktime event, but with more buttons. If this was the case then the reviewer thinks he shouldn't have the illusion at all and made it a grand spectacular cutscene instead of a watered down player experience. Honestly, the best parts of the game that I've seen are when the game's environment forces you to adapt and makes you engage with all of the mechanics that the game offers such as platforming, shooting, and manipulating the environment at the player's control. Essentially, he's saying that a lot of the moments take control away from the player or give the illusion of control to the player at the expense of the experience.

 

[Ra1den]

So basically you're saying it shouldn't be compared to other games with third person shooting just because it does other things than third person shooting? By that logic, the entire notion of genres goes out the window and you literally can't compare any two games. I can't compare Arkham Asylum with Arkham City, AC has an open world and AA doesn't!

That's not at all what I'm saying. The topic was whether games should be reviewed in regards to pure entertainment value, or whether they should be compared to other games in the same genre only.

Somebody made the statement that even if games should be compared to other games in the same genre only, UC should still be at the top. At that point, somebody claimed that there are games that handle the 3rd person shooting mechanics better than UC, to which I replied that UC is more than just a 3rd person shooter, and that there are no games that do what UC does better than UC.

So I was merely pointing out that even if you don't think UC handles 3rd person shooting better than everyone else, this is actually immaterial, as is is not just a 3rd person shooter. Look for other games that do all of the things UC does, including the platforming, and see if any do the entire package better(I don't know what genre I would call it, which is why I phrase it this way).

I guess I may as well point out that I DON"T think games should only be compared against others in the same genre, but my earlier comments were considering this for the sake of the argument.

 

[Loudninja]

The problem is that the experience gives the illusion of the player having control in these wonderful setpiece moments but in reality it's just an interactive cutscene that is sort of like a quicktime event, but with more buttons. If this was the case then the reviewer thinks he shouldn't have the illusion at all and made it a grand spectacular cutscene instead of a watered down player experience. Honestly, the best parts of the game that I've seen are when the game's environment forces you to adapt and makes you engage with all of the mechanics that the game offers such as platforming, shooting, and manipulating the environment at the player's control. Essentially, he's saying that a lot of the moments take control away from the player or give the illusion of control to the player at the expense of the experience.

Wait you play the game or are you getting that from a review?

 

[kayos90]

Wait you play the game or are you getting that from a review?

I'm getting the impression from the review. I've watched entire gameplay of Uncharted 3 so I can't say it plays that way, but from what I've seen, I can see how the reviewer feels that way.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Its the third of the series. And which third of a series, has taken another direction which the first two already haven't?

Not God Of War, Gears, Resistance, Mass Effect, COD, Battlefield, GTA, Oblivion, Halo, Metal Gear, Diablo, Bioshock, Killzone, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Saints Row, Quake, etc.

Uhm, Mass Effect took another direction with the second game, ME2.
Metal Gear jumped either from 2D to 3D (if you consider MGS to be a sequel to MG2) or from stealth mission in an industrial environment where you could use futuristic tech to a survivor mission in a jungle where you had to rely on archaic tech, eat animals and cure yourself.
Fallout - I'm not gonna even comment on that :/
Bioshock - yeah, because Bioshock Infinity looks exactly like Bioshock/Bioschock 2.

You are right on one thing, though:

GAF doesn't know what its talking about, as always.

 

[Fratkabula]

What are you talking about exactly? Are you just listing games without explanation? Resistance should most definitely not be on the same list. Mass effect 3 isn't even out. Assasins creed 1 and two are very different games.
Bioshock 1 and two feel very different and the third one isn't even out.

Resistance 3 qualifies to be on that list, more than any other game. 2 was such a departure that insomniac went running back to the 1 formula with 3. And you will be disappointed to learn that mass effect 3 is going to be more of mass effect and its not going to be demon's souls. And its the same with Infinite, if the gameplay vids and Ken Levine's interviews are any indication.

 

[Ra1den]

The problem is that the experience gives the illusion of the player having control in these wonderful setpiece moments but in reality it's just an interactive cutscene that is sort of like a quicktime event, but with more buttons. If this was the case then the reviewer thinks he shouldn't have the illusion at all and made it a grand spectacular cutscene instead of a watered down player experience. Honestly, the best parts of the game that I've seen are when the game's environment forces you to adapt and makes you engage with all of the mechanics that the game offers such as platforming, shooting, and manipulating the environment at the player's control. Essentially, he's saying that a lot of the moments take control away from the player or give the illusion of control to the player at the expense of the experience.

Well it will vary on a case by case basis with each particular potential cutscene, but I think people that would take a scene of wandering the dessert as a straight cutscene over an interactive cutscene would be in the minority. Some things are best off being pure cutscenes, but sequences like that or the village scene in UC2 work perfectly fine as interactive cutscenes, and allow at least some interaction.

 

[kayos90]

That's not at all what I'm saying. The topic was whether games should be reviewed in regards to pure entertainment value, or whether they should be compared to other games in the same genre only.

Somebody made the statement that even if games should be compared to other games in the same genre only, UC should still be at the top. At that point, somebody claimed that there are games that handle the 3rd person shooting mechanics better than UC, to which I replied that UC is more than just a 3rd person shooter, and that there are no games that do what UC does better than UC.

So I was merely pointing out that even if you don't think UC handles 3rd person shooting better than everyone else, this is actually immaterial, as is is not just a 3rd person shooter. Look for other games that do all of the things UC does, including the platforming, and see if any do the entire package better(I don't know what genre I would call it, which is why I phrase it this way).

I guess I may as well point out that I DON"T think games should only be compared against others in the same genre, but my earlier comments were considering this for the sake of the argument.

Even if that's the case, just because it does a whole lot of things, does that mean we should give the third-person mechanics a bit of a leeway? I don't think so. When you're reviewing something, you're reviewing on the entirety of the product. If Uncharted 3 is a game that deserves that a 9.0 then it better prove to me why it's a 9.0. This means that almost all mechanics and gameplay components flow well and plays stellar. If the shooting mechanics of U3 play subpar compared to other shooters then does it deserve a 9.0? I don't think so.

GAF doesn't know what its talking about, as always.

It wasn't until recently with the flood of crap that went into the U3 review that GAF became the freaking plague. GAF is fine.

 

[leadbelly]

OK, but Uncharted is more than 3rd person shooter, with the platforming aspects, as you are aware. So why compare it to straight 3rd person shooters? Whatever genre you would call it, it is the top of it.

Also, I don't see how the level design could be better. Uncharted 2's level designs were absolute brilliance.

It is? In what way?

And in terms of the platforming aspects of the game: that's an area of the Uncharted series I wish there was more challenge to. That aspect of the game is just a formality. You're going to make that jump and it's unlikely you're going to fall off that ledge. There is barely any skill involved there.

 

[Papercuts]

Its the third of the series. And which third of a series, has taken another direction which the first two already haven't?

Not God Of War, Gears, Resistance, Mass Effect, COD, Battlefield, GTA, Oblivion, Halo, Metal Gear, Diablo, Bioshock, Killzone, Assassin's Creed, Fallout, Saints Row, Quake, etc.

Naughty Dog, GAF doesn't know what its talking about, as always. Ignore them.

...Are you SERIOUS? I don't have experience with every game there, but...what the hell? Mass Effect 2 is COMPLETELY different from 1, with more improved shooting, leveling up changed, the powers at your disposal were all heavily tweaked, getting rid of loot, etc. Mass Effect 3 isn't even out, so I have no idea why you mentioned that. GTA3 is a huge departure from the other GTA games. Oblivion isn't even the third ES game. MGS3 was a big departure from the other 2. Bioshock, again, doesn't have a third game out yet, and Infinite looks completely different. All three Killzone games are pretty different. Assassin's Creed has been changed a lot in each iteration. Fallout 3 is a HUGE departure, which is common knowledge. Saints Row 3 isn't out. Diablo 3 isn't out.

I have no idea what you were thinking with that list of random popular games, because many of them have done exactly what you said they haven't and outright aren't even out to judge.