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[ShapeGSX]

K I got my electron microscope up and working... what quadrant do I have to focus on, since its not apparent at 1:1 ?

crap hold on, its still warming up.

How long did your microscope have to warm up for the Forza 3 shots?

 

[belvedere]

The fact that people come in this thread talking stuff totally unrelated to racing games are pathetic losers both in game and in life.

Well, you seem to be talking about the same person I was referring to. Funny that you post in the same forum he does.

 

[Interfectum]

How long did your microscope have to warm up for the Forza 3 shots?

You'd have to be blind not to see the difference in the Turn 10 Forza 3 screens vs screens from the demo.

Blind or Che :lol

 

[commedieu]

Also, look at the cage inside the vehicle, and how it is welded to the A-pillar using punched sheetmetal. The punched holes are definitely different LOD in the two shots.

They both look great, but they aren't the same model. Every game does it.

so.. holes...

I have no doubt that the PD shots have more Anti Aliasing. But you're stretching a tad considering the source material. HD vs choppy JPG with different lighting. The headlight models/decals aren't low detailed/completely swapped geometry--like forza.

 

[Lurchio]

Weird excuses? The fact that Guerrilla managed to deliver the best looking FPS on consoles close to the CGI trailer is an huge feat. I'm sure you can name me many developers that have the same?

I'm also not sure what you mean about GT5. KY is delivering, go to the GT5 thread and see for your self.

Do you really think I've come to this thread pretending to be neutral? I've favored Sony and I don't hide it like many other posters in this thread.

What is actually worse are fanboys that really think they are neutral.

To be fair whats worse is it seems you and a few others would actually prefer that forza was a bad game rather than Gran turismo be a good one,that's crazy fanboy stuff.

On a side note(lol) those latest GT screenshots are incredible,contest over..if there ever was one.

 

[skyfinch]

 

[commedieu]

How long did your microscope have to warm up for the Forza 3 shots?

Didn't even need to pull it out. Just look at a menu headlight/edge/wheel/body/decal resolution vs ingame & bobs your uncle.

 

[Interfectum]

Would be interesting to get some numbers from PD.

The cars look like they're pushing 2x the geometry of Forza 3 cars and there are 16 of them.

Simply incredible.

 

[commedieu]

Ahh thanks finch. Yeah you see the lip on the fender is just as detailed, from the other angle it looked smooth due to the shadow. Look at the sharp lip on the spoiler too.

(looks at shadows)

SONY LIED!

 

[deepbrown]

They aren't the same.

Look at the crease over the front wheel arch. In the bullshot, it is a definite crease. In the replay mode, it is curved. Different LOD.

I'd love to see an actual gameplay model, too. I bet that the LOD drops even more.

That shot is taken off-screen.

Just go and look at Prologue and compare and contrast...you don't have to talk about an unreleased game. It's there for you to see NOW.

 

[Doc Evils]

To be fair whats worse is it seems you and a few others would actually prefer that forza was a bad game rather than Gran turismo be a good one,that's crazy fanboy stuff.

On a side note(lol) those latest GT screenshots are incredible,contest over..if there ever was one.

[sarcasm]Oh of course, it's not like someone has been riling up people with smack talk which lead to the creation of this thread.[/sarcasm]

 

[Kaako]

Shitty youtube vid is even a better representation of the GT5 STi.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Also, look at the cage inside the vehicle, and how it is welded to the A-pillar using punched sheetmetal. The punched holes are definitely different LOD in the two shots.

They both look great, but they aren't the same model. Every game does it.

I think they are the same model. One picture is off screen and have compression, also the car is in the shade. The other picture is super sampled high resolution, and direct screen (more detail, no detail lost).

Edit: Also you have to take into account that the car is in motion when the off screen camera took the picture. More blurring and lost detail obtained.

 

[ShapeGSX]

so.. holes...

I have no doubt that the PD shots have more Anti Aliasing. But you're stretching a tad considering the source material. HD vs choppy JPG with different lighting. The headlight models/decals aren't low detailed/completely swapped geometry--like forza.

Claim they are identical, and you should expect people to look closely. There is also more detail in the vinyl textures in the photo mode shot vs the replay.

Again, these are just the replay and photo mode models (well, hopefully the 1st one is photo mode, and not a complete fabrication). I'd like to see the same comparison done to the game play model. But since you never actually get that close in game play, it would be pretty hard to compare. In fact, since you never get that close in game play, they would be NUTS to waste the computes on the same model as they use in photo mode.

Honestly, I wouldn't even care about this if people hocking GT5 didn't make such a big deal about Forza 3's LOD changes (especially when they are probably never going to even play the game). It is what game developers do in order to maintain a decent frame rate on limited hardware. Sacrifices have to be made. And now you know that even PD has to do this.

And again, both shots look absolutely incredible.

 

[McLovin]

Shitty youtube vid is even a better representation of the GT5 STi.

Why does the youtube video look more like the "bull shot"? Is that other pic from an old build or something?

 

[Interfectum]

Shitty youtube vid is even a better representation of the GT5 STi.

Yep confirms same model in game.

ShapeGSX writing essays and suiciding.

 

[qirex99]

NeoGAF is the hardcore of the hardcore. Most gamers aren't on here parsing through developer comments or looking at pixels. Joe Average Gamer sees a commercial or a review or a developer interview and buys the game if he or she thinks it sounds cool. There's immense pressure to reach this person. Developers aren't really selling to NeoGAF. We do all the work! We research the games, etc. But they have to reach Joe Average gamer. So you have to release bullshots. You have to boast about how awesome your game is. You have to pay off sites and magazines to get good reviews. It's just a business.

exactly, the hardcore really dont matter anymore - especially since they complain the MOST and BUY the LEAST.

I mean really, the game looks great, plays great - its leaps and bounds over the last game - who really cares?

1. The pixel counters
2. Guys in tin hats

 

[Ploid 3.0]

You gotta give it to PD, they know how to prioritize. When moving past the shade of trees in a racing game you just need spots of light to pass over the car to give the illusion. There may be a reason that the second pic isn't under the same shade. Although GT pr shots smooth out the shadows too. The car models look the same still, as does the lighting if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Senua]

Would be interesting to get some numbers from PD.

The cars look like they're pushing 2x the geometry of Forza 3 cars and there are 16 of them.

Simply incredible.

while it looks fantastic, it wont look that good in game as that is obviously a replay shot with added AA

 

[jakonovski]

I still have no 360 because UPS is so sloooooooooooooow. I want my Forza 3 demo! All those incredible physics awaiting my tender touch...

 

[Kaako]

Why does the youtube video look more like the "bull shot"? Is that other pic from an old build or something?

Don't know but I think it may have to do with the angle and lighting in that "older" Sti shot. The vid shows the actual ingame model much much better. Direct feed footage would be even better.

 

[dragonfart28]

while it looks fantastic, it wont look that good in game as that is obviously a replay shot with added AA

So basically, it's a lie.

 

[Senua]

So basically, it's a lie.

nope its the same model as in game just less aliasing

 

[MirageDwarf]

Let's throw more fuel in the fire, because apparently it's okay as long as you say "it's okay man it's a troll thread, don't take it so seriously!"



Does this count as ZOMG, misleading and lies or not?

I think this is not relevant to what happened with Forza 3. People were shown bullshots and specifically told that what you see is REAL. More than once. That was something which directly affects IQ. Definitely that would change people's expectations.

Same thing happened with Halo 3. Now I don't have that big problem with IQ in Forza 3. Overall it looks nice and much better than Forza 2. But either don't say anything or make it clear all that is being done in photomode.

 

[dragonfart28]

nope its the same model as in game just less aliasing

Ah, I see. Just wanted to make sure I understood the proper definition of a lie. In this case, showing something that is not representative of the truth is forgiveable.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Yep confirms same model in game.

ShapeGSX writing essays and suiciding.

:lol
I have no idea what ShapeGSX has been saying but man I got a good laugh out of that.

Shitty youtube vid is even a better representation of the GT5 STi.

Wow the damage looked way better in that than other stuff I have seen. This game never fails to impress visually no matter how many new vids or pics I see.

 

[Interfectum]

Awesome

Yamauchi then went on to list a befuddling list of features that should ship on the disc next year. GT Mode will return with all the features of classic GT games, like the garage, the car dealer, the tuning shop, and license tests. However, more exciting are the new features, such as a brand-new physics model that includes damage and deformation for all normal cars. Hybrid and electric cars are going to be added to the livery, too, with over 950 cars available on the disc. There will also be over 70 variations of over 20 locations to race through.

The online features have been expanded to include both text and voice chat, with support for lobbies and private rooms. There will be online photo albums and online replay albums as well; with the ability to export replays to YouTube. Gran Turismo TV, the video service introduced in Gran Turismo 5 Prologue will also be expanded with a brand new UI, progressive downloading (so you can watch the video content while it downloads), and the ability to export these videos to PSP. While this may seem like the kitchen sink of features, Yamauchi teased, "We have much more planned.".

 

[lowrider007]

wow !!, that's great news, thanks for the update, you got a link also ?

 

[TheHeretic]

nope its the same model as in game just less aliasing

Ironically to the uneducated AA will make a game look a lot better than LoD. Not a commentary on this fiasco but it's still bullshit.

 

[Interfectum]

Wow wow wow

- the game posesses a a day/night cycle and its finally possible to race in the rain.
- tire usage is in, and it varies based on the quality of the driving and also the temperature of the rubber. They showed off details of tire management in the video and you can examine the tracks to optimize your tire setup and sets.

 

[Senua]

omg awesome!

 

[dragonfart28]

Ironically to the uneducated AA will make a game look a lot better than LoD. Not a commentary on this fiasco but it's still bullshit.

Shutup dude. Bullshots don't matter if they don't have a mouthpiece attached.

 

[Dina]

Ah, I see. Just wanted to make sure I understood the proper definition of a lie. In this case, showing something that is not representative of the truth is forgiveable.

Double standards are totally acceptable if it's the company you support.

 

[Interfectum]

Top of their game for 10+ years and yet so humble

>> Have you seen Forza 3 ? What do you think of the game ? Have you played it ? Did you take notes or stay focused on GT ?
Our challenge is to improve every GT based on the previous release. But competition is good.

PD :bow

 

[Doc Evils]

Top of their game for 10+ years and yet so humble



PD :bow

A true sportsman.

 

[RSTEIN]

Sounds incredible!

 

[Dina]

Screenshot

In game

Wow it's nice to know the in game models are the same unlike another game

Models look like the same, yet the second picture is definitely more ugly then bullshot number one.

 

[Senua]

the in game shot is off screen, makes the game look different

 

[PuppetMaster]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.....


Oh man.... I cant wait for the day games look like this during gameplay. CHRIST! Look at it! Its freaking insane.

Wow what is that car? The 370Z?

Edit: It must because this is the real one

 

[Always-honest]

So basically, it's a lie.

yes it is.
kill jaggies with fire. they are the final barrier to true immersion.

 

[deepbrown]

So basically, it's a lie.

It's what we call a supersampled shot and not a bullshot

 

[Senua]

yes it is.
kill jaggies with fire. they are the final barrier to true immersion.

PC gaming, where jaggies are nowhere to be seen!

 

[Windom Earle]

Forza 1? ICE CUBE SLIDING OFF THE ROAD.

Please keep defending the terrible handling of Forza 1, though. I'm of the opinion that Forza 1 was a huge piece of shit in terms of car handling because of this and other physics handling reasons.

Fixed

Spoiler

Haven't played Forza 2 and like the car handling of Forza 3 because it goes more into GT direction

I agree with you about the smack talk. I think a much better approach would be to release the game and let it speak for itself. The problem with Dan's approach is that it sets himself up for a hard landing if one detail of the game is off. Business 101 says to underpromise and overdeliver. Turn 10 didn't do this and here we are.

While I don't like the lies and the deceiving it's a part of the industry. I really can't think of an AAA developer that hasn't done it at one point. The industry is very crowded. Not hitting sales forecasts can mean the difference between champagne or bankruptcy. Boasting from the top of the mountains about your game is a way to get noticed. The best devs - id Software, Epic, Bungie, Naughty Dog, Bethesda, etc., etc. - have all been guilty of overpromising and underdelivering.

NeoGAF is the hardcore of the hardcore. Most gamers aren't on here parsing through developer comments or looking at pixels. Joe Average Gamer sees a commercial or a review or a developer interview and buys the game if he or she thinks it sounds cool. There's immense pressure to reach this person. Developers aren't really selling to NeoGAF. We do all the work! We research the games, etc. But they have to reach Joe Average gamer. So you have to release bullshots. You have to boast about how awesome your game is. You have to pay off sites and magazines to get good reviews. It's just a business.

Listen to this man!

 

[Always-honest]

PC gaming, where jaggies are nowhere to be seen!

yeah yeah........ been there...

 

[Stop It]

Awesome

Oi, Yamauchi, stop planning stuff, I want the game already, heh.

Still, the check-list of awesome keeps on growing, the benefits of a budget that has the words "blank cheque" in the description.

 

[CurlySaysX]

Gran Tourism looks better than real life™

 

[shuyin_]

A true sportsman.

Saying 'competition is good' is a lot more respectful and decent than obsessively repeating "definitive racing game of the current generation" in your E3 conference :lol

 

[Cheeto]

Wow what is that car? The 370Z?

The speedometer is a lie

 

[noah111]

Gran Tourism looks better than real life™

You know your stuff!

 

[Interfectum]

Full interview from GT5 thread:

http://www.jvn.com/jeux/articles/int...xclusives.html

Day-night cycle is in.
Rain is in.
Tire wear is in.
Tire temperature is in. (mentioned in the video)

>> Is there still a chance for a Christmas release ?
To answer your question, it's not delayed. We never officially announced it for 2009. But I understand you're dissappointed.

>> How far is the game ?
The game is finished if all you want to do is take a car and drive. But for the actual game experience, we're at 65%

>> I tried the demo, the cars don't fully deform. Not even when crashing really hard.
We're still working on that. We still have a lot of work to do in that department.

>> What about online ? Will there be race events like in Prologue ?
Prologue worked like an open match. In GT5, there will be private zones for your friends.

>> Will there be more series other than NASCAR and GT500* What about F1 ?
I have always wanted as much championships in the game as possible. That's why we now have Nascar and WRC. But I want all of them.
It's difficult to get all the F1 teams.

>> What about other single seaters ?
Possible.

>> Have you seen Forza 3 ? What do you think of the game ? Have you played it ? Did you take notes or stay focused on GT ?

>> Earlier I saw an interesting G-force graphic. Will that be in the final game ?
Do you want it in ?

>> Yes
Then I'll leave it in.