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[phil_t]

Just LOL... I knew you'd come out with some weird excuses why all these other (and there are many more from lots of developers) are somehow OK..

I'd never excuse what T10 have done, but in terms of marketing accuracy it's totally par for the course (sadly), to actually attack them vociferously about it, and worse, defend others for doing the same thing really shows a very irrational and slanted view on proceedings.

"Do we chastise the KZ2 CGI being passed as in-game?"

Guerrilla did deliver on the graphics department, no one can argue that and put backbenchers at rest.


"Do we baulk every time KY gives us a 'future of GT' presentation that is pie in the sky, or promises 'GT5p will have damage' that never appears, or 'GT4 online' that wasn't..?


KY did over promise during the PS2 era and got his fair share of smack, but again this generation with GT5 he will be delivering damage and car rolls. we already saw the early damage with the Subaru.


The developer that you mention that has lied has been called out and they have delivered or will be delivering, what makes Turn 10 special to be excluded from this criticism?

 

[TheHeretic]

Can we just let this thread die? It's fucking embarassing.

 

[Ultimo hombre]

no, i'd say this does:

You forgot the most important ones that make this thread keep going. The ones who haven't played it!

 

[bedlamite]

Can we just let this thread die? It's fucking embarassing.

It'll never die if the Forza fans keep posting in here, thus fueling the GT defense force

 

[skybaby]

I never believed it but I'm pretty sure I can see people here who are actually getting paid to promote some product
This really can't be an average owner behavior to a competing software.

 

[RSTEIN]

The main problem here is immature smack talk from the creative director that doesn't have the goods to be backed up by, which lead to these type of callouts to happen. Do you really think this thread would of happened if he didn't say anything? Dan Greenwalt is the one responsible for this thread, so they have everything criticism coming to them.

I agree with you about the smack talk. I think a much better approach would be to release the game and let it speak for itself. The problem with Dan's approach is that it sets himself up for a hard landing if one detail of the game is off. Business 101 says to underpromise and overdeliver. Turn 10 didn't do this and here we are.

While I don't like the lies and the deceiving it's a part of the industry. I really can't think of an AAA developer that hasn't done it at one point. The industry is very crowded. Not hitting sales forecasts can mean the difference between champagne or bankruptcy. Boasting from the top of the mountains about your game is a way to get noticed. The best devs - id Software, Epic, Bungie, Naughty Dog, Bethesda, etc., etc. - have all been guilty of overpromising and underdelivering.

NeoGAF is the hardcore of the hardcore. Most gamers aren't on here parsing through developer comments or looking at pixels. Joe Average Gamer sees a commercial or a review or a developer interview and buys the game if he or she thinks it sounds cool. There's immense pressure to reach this person. Developers aren't really selling to NeoGAF. We do all the work! We research the games, etc. But they have to reach Joe Average gamer. So you have to release bullshots. You have to boast about how awesome your game is. You have to pay off sites and magazines to get good reviews. It's just a business.

 

[antiloop]

Forza fans are getting quite personal in this comparison thread.

Instead of talking about the games at hand they spend most of them time name-calling or throwing insults.

Agree, let's talk about the games without insulting each other.

 

[TheSeks]

Ooops, more bullshit.

Yeah, because it's total bullshit to be able to take a corner at 50MPH in Forza 1 and clear it. Take the corner at 50MPH in Forza 3 and clear it. But Forza 2? ICE CUBE SLIDING OFF THE ROAD.

Please keep defending the terrible handling of Forza 2, though. I'm of the opinion that Forza 2 was a huge step back in terms of car handling than Forza 1 because of this and other physics handling reasons.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Agree, let's talk about the games without insulting each other.

Uh, how is his last paragraph not a de facto insult of everyone you're talking about? "You enjoyed the demo? Lol, you idiot the game's a piece of shit.". Let's be real here.

 

[Doc Evils]

Just LOL... I knew you'd come out with some weird excuses why all these other (and there are many more from lots of developers) are somehow OK..

I'd never excuse what T10 have done, but in terms of marketing accuracy it's totally par for the course (sadly), to actually attack them vociferously about it, and worse, defend others for doing the same thing really shows a very irrational and slanted view on proceedings.

Weird excuses? The fact that Guerrilla managed to deliver the best looking FPS on consoles close to the CGI trailer is an huge feat. I'm sure you can name me many developers that have the same?

I'm also not sure what you mean about GT5. KY is delivering, go to the GT5 thread and see for your self.

Do you really think I've come to this thread pretending to be neutral? I've favored Sony and I don't hide it like many other posters in this thread.

What is actually worse are fanboys that really think they are neutral.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Can we just let this thread die? It's fucking embarassing.

Hell no. This is the most entertaining gaf thread since ff13 going multi.

 

[TheHeretic]

Weird excuses? The fact that Guerrilla managed to deliver the best looking FPS on consoles close the CGI trailer is an huge feat. I'm sure you can name me many developer that have the same?

I'm also not sure what you mean about GT5. KY is delivering, go to the GT5 thread and see your self. Match 2010 to be precise.

Do you really think I've come to this thread pretending to be neutral? I've favored Sony and I don't hide it like many other posters in this thread.

What is actually worse are fanboys that really think they are neutral.

Sonys KZ2 showing was a fucking disgrace. They stood in front of milions of fans and lied blatantly to their faces.

 

[Ultimo hombre]

Hell no. This is the most entertaining gaf thread since ff13 going multi.

nah that was better. We were watching dynamic meltdowns then. This is all rehearsed.

 

[Router]

Can we just let this thread die? It's fucking embarassing.

Hells no. It keeps the Forza and GT threads

Spoiler

mostly

clean. THANK CHRIST FOR THIS THREAD.

 

[Doc Evils]

Sonys KZ2 showing was a fucking disgrace. They stood in front of milions of fans and lied blatantly to their faces.

They did. But can you say that for the retail game?

 

[TheHeretic]

They did. But can you say that for the retail game?

What happened after is entirely irrelevant .

 

[deepbrown]

Sonys KZ2 showing was a fucking disgrace. They stood in front of milions of fans and lied blatantly to their faces.

Did they say it was in-game? Or did they just show it? You can't remember.

 

[[Nintex]]

It'll never die if the Forza fans keep posting in here, thus fueling the GT defense force

Agree, let's talk about the games without insulting each other.

I never believed it but I'm pretty sure I can see people here who are actually getting paid to promote some product
This really can't be an average owner behavior to a competing software.

Hell no. This is the most entertaining gaf thread since ff13 going multi.

Sonys KZ2 showing was a fucking disgrace. They stood in front of milions of fans and lied blatantly to their faces.

 

[phil_t]

Weird excuses? The fact that Guerrilla managed to deliver the best looking FPS on consoles close to the CGI trailer is an huge feat. I'm sure you can name me many developers that have the same?

I'm also not sure what you mean about GT5. KY is delivering, go to the GT5 thread and see for your self.

Do you really think I've come to this thread pretending to be neutral? I've favored Sony and I don't hide it like many other posters in this thread.

What is actually worse are fanboys that really think they are neutral.

KZ2 (while looking very nice) in no way looks remotely as good as the CGI that was said to be in-game. It was a blatant marketing 'lie', it was very dishonest, and as bad as anything anyone has ever done, including T10.

KY lied, he made a promise that damage would be in GT5p, not GT5, people who bought GT5p on the strength of what KY said should be outraged. If he delivers it in a later game that's OK though? Same goes for the on-line?

If you are so blinded by Sony that they can do no wrong, just keep praising them for everything you love them for, but don't start using your logic to attack other people and developers for doing the same things Sony/PD have also done many times, it just does your credibility no good what-so-ever..

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Mad? hardly, I find it rather humorous how people can support such a developer that lies through its teeth.

Remember this oldie? :lol

 

[longdi]

It'll never die if the Forza fans keep posting in here, thus fueling the GT defense force

For someone who keep trying to play the impartial higher than thou role, why do you need to make it as though the GT defense force are the negatives here? They are not the ones being lied to.

My final conclusion for how Turn 10 handled the marketing is one word, class, or a lack of.

 

[Doc Evils]

KZ2 (while looking very nice) in no way looks remotely as good as the CGI that was said to be in-game. It was a blatant marketing 'lie', it was very dishonest, and as bad as anything anyone has ever done, including T10.

KY lied, he made a promise that damage would be in GT5p, not GT5, people who bought GT5p on the strength of what KY said should be outraged. If he delivers it in a later game that's OK though? Same goes for the on-line?

If you are so blinded by Sony that they can do no wrong, just keep praising them for everything you love them for, but don't start using your logic to attack other people and developers for doing the same things Sony/PD have also done many times, it just does your credibility no good what-so-ever..

You're an interesting poster.:lol

I haven't mentioned Sony can do no wrong, when I have admitted they have done wrong, but delivered at the end.

Has Turn 10 done this?

 

[Interfectum]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/granturismo52/images.html

 

[spwolf]

KZ2 (while looking very nice) in no way looks remotely as good as the CGI that was said to be in-game. It was a blatant marketing 'lie', it was very dishonest, and as bad as anything anyone has ever done, including T10.

KY lied, he made a promise that damage would be in GT5p, not GT5, people who bought GT5p on the strength of what KY said should be outraged. If he delivers it in a later game that's OK though? Same goes for the on-line?

If you are so blinded by Sony that they can do no wrong, just keep praising them for everything you love them for, but don't start using your logic to attack other people and developers for doing the same things Sony/PD have also done many times, it just does your credibility no good what-so-ever..

i thought KZ2 actually looked better than CGI :lol

but no KY did not promise anything, thats where you go wrong. In fact, everyone wants KY to talk more to the fans, but this is what it would lead to.

It is one thing when someone says that they hope to do something or that they are working on something, and another when someone (who claims to be biggest graphical freak on T10 team) claims to the community that what they see is going to be in the game :lol. Or when Dan is slapping the naked emperor with claims of most cars "this gen", and increased poly counts...

I have not seen another example in gaming world when someone talks so much smack as T10 against their competitors. People claiming this happens all the time are just plainly wrong. I dont see it happening with other games.

KZ2 devs did not compare themselves to other games, they just presented their own product... same goes with all the big franchises and all the big devs, no matter what studio or publisher.

Then comes Che who complains about low poly parts of car in GT5 but gets "mistaken" about aggressive LOD in his own game that he has played for 2 years but did not notice.

It is just :lol

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Let's throw more fuel in the fire, because apparently it's okay as long as you say "it's okay man it's a troll thread, don't take it so seriously!"

Gran Turismo 5’s release window has just been set to March 2010 for Japan, according to Kazunori Yamauchi at the TGS press conference. This, unfortunately, runs directly counter to everything that we’ve heard so far from a wide variety of sources for nearly an entire year:

November 30, 2008 – Sony executive in Europe mentions GT5 will “arrive at Christmas” during an interview with a financial magazine.

June 4, 2009 – Kazunori Yamauchi states: “We can release Gran Turismo 5 whenever we want.” during E3 interview.

August 2, 2009 – GTPlanet acquires internal company documents which clearly outline the date that Sony expects to release the game (and it was well within 2009).

August 22, 2009 – Kazunori Yamauchi states that “GT5 will be released shortly after this date [October 1st]” during an interview.

August 23, 2009 – Printed material distributed by Sony at the GamesCom 2009 conference clearly indicate the game will be released during the fourth quarter of 2009.

Needless to say, everyone – including myself – are pretty surprised by the most recent turn of events. Was there a problem during the game’s development? Did criticisms of the damage engine shown off at GamesCom send Polyphony Digital back to the drawing board? We may never know for sure.

Does this count as ZOMG, misleading and lies or not?

 

[commedieu]

LoL @ the Time machine of Sonys lies.

Instead of Forza fans swallowing it up and saying "well looks like Turn10 pulled a fast one, and the photomode/menu has different models than whats actually in game" they go "WELL SONY LIED TOO!" as if that erases the months of "OH MY GOD LOOK AT THE DETAIL, DEFINITIVE! GT BETTER WATCH OUT buwhuahuahaaaahahh! LOOKS REAL!!!" You guys got duped. Sony has delivered unparalleled visuals. Has Turn10?

Say what you will about killzone2. But its frankly the best looking console game out. Uncharted2 in my opinion trumps it, which is crazy considering the bar that KZ2 raised. We all know there was some confusion from DEV to PR guy for the sony/kz2 footage WHICH WAS CLEARED UP BY GG THEMSELVES. Sony's lies lead to the best looking games ever created. Turn10's lies lead to forza2 with GTHD lighting. Go figure.

KY says tons of things about GT, prologue wasn't guaranteed to have damage. As Turn10 Guaranteed all the vehicles had 10x the polygons. KY didn't go around blathering "Definitive definitive definitive"

Turn10 isn't some innocent child here who was mistaken for something. They boasted, they cant back up their claims. Thats about it. We can pretend this is about Sony lying about 4d, but last time I checked turn10's games haven't delivered anything that equals the amount of hype the developers themselves gave them.

 

[Doc Evils]

Let's throw more fuel in the fire, because apparently it's okay as long as you say "it's okay man it's a troll thread, don't take it so seriously!"



Does this count as ZOMG, misleading and lies or not?

So the best lie you can come up with is the release date?


dude....

 

[RSTEIN]

when I have admitted they have done wrong, but delivered at the end. Has Turn 10 done this?

As a package yes absolutely. When Forza 3 is launched it will indeed be the definitive sim on consoles. No other console sim will feature as many cars, tracks, online features, customization options, etc.

It may not be so definitive when GT5 is launched.

 

[TheHeretic]

Let's throw more fuel in the fire, because apparently it's okay as long as you say "it's okay man it's a troll thread, don't take it so seriously!"



Does this count as ZOMG, misleading and lies or not?

Wait wait wait. Have YOU seen the GT5 gifs?

 

[Interfectum]

Full body damage is going to be awesome on race cars - is that damage on both player and AI cars I see?

 

[skybaby]

Full body damage is going to be awesome on race cars

They really should start locking their doors!

 

[Router]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.....


Oh man.... I cant wait for the day games look like this during gameplay. CHRIST! Look at it! Its freaking insane.

 

[belvedere]

So awesome.

 

[ShapeGSX]

What is with the doors popping open on all of these cars without any scratches on them? Is there a button to lock the door securely on the G27?

 

[LCfiner]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.....


Oh man.... I cant wait for the day games look like this during gameplay. CHRIST! Look at it! Its freaking insane.

potentially dumb questions from a gfx whore:

does this screenshot imply that there's motion blur happening during the 60 fps gameplay?

or is it taken from a replay where it's 30 fps but motion blur is added?

or is it just motion blur added during photomode?

 

[Cheeto]

ohmeegee bullshots

 

[Peterthumpa]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.....


Oh man.... I cant wait for the day games look like this during gameplay. CHRIST! Look at it! Its freaking insane.

Well, you won't have to wait too long... March 2010.
Taking Prologue as an example... that's basically how it will look with less AA.

 

[K' Dash]

For those saying that NFS: Shit is not that bad I invite you to see this short video, and for the people trolling GT5 and FIII, click on this for a good laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dVjfSTJrFs&#t=2m40s

 

[Interfectum]

Well, you won't have to wait too long... March 2010.
Taking Prologue as an example... that's basically how it will look with less AA.

Screenshot

In game

Wow it's nice to know the in game models are the same unlike another game

 

[commedieu]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.....


Oh man.... I cant wait for the day games look like this during gameplay. CHRIST! Look at it! Its freaking insane.

Thats not ingame though, has more AA. If GT5 has that level of AA, ill cream in everyone's pants for them.

 

[Cheeto]

So... is that the MPH gauge with a kmh reading?

 

[ShapeGSX]

Screenshot

In game

Wow it's nice to know the in game models are the same unlike another game

They aren't the same.

Look at the crease over the front wheel arch. In the bullshot, it is a definite crease. In the replay mode, it is curved. Different LOD.

I'd love to see an actual gameplay model, too. I bet that the LOD drops even more.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

So the best lie you can come up with is the release date?


dude....

Conveniently ignoring the PS3 image I see. Not surprising. :lol

Wait wait wait. Have YOU seen the GT5 gifs?

You're right. Forza pre-order cancelled!

I thought this thread was a good opportunity to educate fans on both sides

Come on, you know this was never a realistic possibility without heavy mod oversight. :lol

There's no real point in trying to counter misleading posts either given sheer volume either.

Can you imagine how much worse the thread would be if accounts like Snah or Private Hoffman were still around?

 

[belvedere]

The fact that people can even come close to comparing the impact of a single game's target render to the highest console failure rate in the history of videogames, is hilarious. Or pathetic. Maybe both.

 

[commedieu]

potentially dumb questions from a gfx whore:

does this screenshot imply that there's motion blur happening during the 60 fps gameplay?

or is it taken from a replay where it's 30 fps but motion blur is added?

or is it just motion blur added during photomode?

Good Q. And one i've had myself. GT5p sports this kinda motion blured mode while you're watching a replay. ANYONE ELSE NOTICE? But theres 2x hood/trunk views. One is sort of a fisheye effect distorted lense, but its more like what this screen is from. I've always wondered if that was a test mode for GT5,because it wasn't super 60fps at the time.

The REplays in GT are 30fps.

There is motion blur from the cockpit view if you take a still while its moving.

 

[_Xenon_]

Screenshot

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/270/941103_20090928_screen005.jpg

In game

http://images.gamersyde.com/image_gran_turismo_5-11403-1865_0001.jpg

Wow it's nice to know the in game models are the same unlike another game

I suppose the 2nd pic is actually from replay mode? Well if that's the case another game can do it as well.

 

[HoRNS456]

Having both the PS3 and Xbox 360, I don't give an F about 90% of the posts in this thread.

One game I will play later this year and another I'll play next year.

 

[commedieu]

They aren't the same.

Look at the crease over the front wheel arch. In the bullshot, it is a definite crease. In the replay mode, it is curved. Different LOD.

K I got my electron microscope up and working... what quadrant do I have to focus on, since its not apparent at 1:1 ?

crap hold on, its still warming up.

 

[_Xenon_]

The fact that people can even come close to comparing the impact of a single game's target render to the highest console failure rate in the history of videogames, is hilarious. Or pathetic. Maybe both.

The fact that people come in this thread talking stuff totally unrelated to racing games are pathetic losers both in game and in life.

Plus:
Butt hurt people talking shit about developers yet they are too stupid to become one, here are some choices:
1. grow a pair and do some action (sue/protest, dare you not)
2. keep whining like crying bitches and watch the game selling into millions, again
3. stfu

 

[ShapeGSX]

Also, look at the cage inside the vehicle, and how it is welded to the A-pillar using punched sheetmetal. The punched holes are definitely different LOD in the two shots.

They both look great, but they aren't the same model. Every game does it.