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[thuway]

Beloved console warrior sites have chimed in with comparisons - some claiming Forza 3 looks better - http://www.gameswire.net/screenshots/forza-motorsport-3-better-than-gt5p-after-all_179.html and

Others with videos that give an edge to GT5- http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...9d27-Forza-3-vs-GT5-Prologue-comparison-video.


Concerning above: - I think these screenshots who are chanting victory for Forza are missing some major points. Prologue was released at a time when Uncharted 1 had just launched. Devs were struggling with memory allocation, taming Cell, and a whole host of other issues that I'm sure this forum is aware of. Despite all those burdens, Prologue launched with a modified 1080p display mode with 60fps, no easy feat.


The World Wide Tech Sharing initiative will insure Gran Turismo 5 a pretty HUGE boost in visual fidelity. Lets hope PD gets its act together for Fall 2010 :lol.

 

[Windom Earle]

NFS Shift cannot compete with Forza 3's superior cockpit mode...

There are three things Shift has going over GT and Forza. Cockpit (with shift animation!), damage and engine sound. Not bad at all for a start!

 

[phil_t]

There are three things Shift has going over GT and Forza. Cockpit (with shift animation!), damage and engine sound. Not bad at all for a start!

one very much speaks for oneself with that...

the one thing I would change in Shift is the hyper unrealistic cockpit shake and 'blur-o-tunnel-vision', if that kind of thing floats your boat, fine, that is not what FM/GT are aiming for, and I'm glad for that, as it annoys the hell out of me!

The damage/engine sounds are perfectly fine in FM3, actual damage is modelled well, visual damage could be better, but it's very much the same license limited production car deformation IMO.

 

[Doc Evils]

This sums up the thread:

 

[Windom Earle]

one very much speaks for oneself with that...

the one thing I would change in Shift is the hyper unrealistic cockpit shake and 'blur-o-tunnel-vision', if that kind of thing floats your boat, fine, that is not what FM/GT are aiming for, and I'm glad for that, as it annoys the hell out of me!

The damage/engine sounds are perfectly fine in FM3, actual damage is modelled well, visual damage could be better, but it's very much the same license limited production car deformation IMO.

I agree that the cockpit is a matter of taste, but I do hope that more games will handle it in a similar way in the future. Cockpit views in racing games always felt way to static to me (TD Unlimited, PGR4, GT5p), so I switched back to the good old bumper cam. Shift makes it awesome, immersive and realistic (people can't imagine what forces are at work in race cars) at the same time. Also loving the cockpit blur, even though it's not really realistic.

Visual damage is better in Shift, you can really tear your car apart, much more than in the Forza 3 demo. Engines sound more brutal to me.

 

[spwolf]

Beloved console warrior sites have chimed in with comparisons - some claiming Forza 3 looks better - http://www.gameswire.net/screenshots/forza-motorsport-3-better-than-gt5p-after-all_179.html and

Others with videos that give an edge to GT5- http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...9d27-Forza-3-vs-GT5-Prologue-comparison-video.


Concerning above: - I think these screenshots who are chanting victory for Forza are missing some major points. Prologue was released at a time when Uncharted 1 had just launched. Devs were struggling with memory allocation, taming Cell, and a whole host of other issues that I'm sure this forum is aware of. Despite all those burdens, Prologue launched with a modified 1080p display mode with 60fps, no easy feat.


The World Wide Tech Sharing initiative will insure Gran Turismo 5 a pretty HUGE boost in visual fidelity. Lets hope PD gets its act together for Fall 2010 :lol.

Actually you posted to fanboy article on gameswire, here is their own:
http://www.gameswire.net/comparison...vs-gran-turismo-5-prologue-comparison_31.html

 

[RSTEIN]

forza is a shitty name with no association what so ever to the racing world.
Forza what? who? it means strong in Italian? Might as well call it any random name in the Italian dictionary.
Hey, its Italian! just like Scuderia Ferrari!

I don't even know where to begin with this one.

For starters, you may want to check out this magazine.

 

[m0dus]

This sums up the thread:

no, i'd say this does:

 

[bj00rn_]

Edit: ^^^ Indeed :lol

This sums up the thread:

http://i35.tinypic.com/10ngosl.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

No it really doesn't. But your attitude does a much better job at summing it up.

Watch out: Another SDF-drone attack incoming

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[Interfectum]

This sums up the thread:

It's a shame their fans are following their lead too.

 

[Windom Earle]

no, i'd say this does:

:lol Model switching was bigger than tinted windows though.

 

[LordPhoque]

It's a shame their fans are following their lead too.

Fortunately we have you to guide us.

Just STFU, seriously.

This sums up the thread:

u mad ?

 

[Doc Evils]

Fortunately we have you to guide us.

Just STFU, seriously.



u mad ?

Mad? hardly, I find it rather humorous how people can support such a developer that lies through its teeth. It makes it more interesting when these are the same people that are the type to call to arms when other companies lie.

 

[LordPhoque]

Mad? hardly, I find it rather humorous how people can support such a developer that lies through its teeth. It makes it more interesting when these are the same people that are the type to call to arms when other companies lie.

The fact that they lied is only one for fanboys of your kind. That's why some people aren't mad at Turn 10 at all. They played their game (the demo at least), found it awesome on every aspect, and that's it. On the other side, there's people like you posting in this thread 24/7 to shit on FM3 just because it's not on PS3. You can try to self convince you that it's not because of that, but you're not fooling anyone. Period. If this thread is for trolling, at least do it right and don't try to pretend that it's for another reason that stupid fanboyism.

 

[TheExodu5]

Biggest reason why GT is better? G25/G27 support! Bitches!

That's my main reason. Nothing else can make up for the lack of G25 support. Playing with a controller sucks.

 

[Xun]

Mad? hardly, I find it rather humorous how people can support such a developer that lies through its teeth. It makes it more interesting when these are the same people that are the type to call to arms when other companies lie.

Polyphony lie, Turn 10 lie, mostly every company lies.

Why does it matter? Seriously.

 

[Windom Earle]

The fact that they lied is only one for fanboys of your kind. That's why some people aren't mad at Turn 10 at all. They played their game (the demo at least), found it awesome on every aspect, and that's it. On the other side, there's people like you posting in this thread 24/7 to shit on FM3 just because it's not on PS3. You can try to self convince you that it's not because of that, but you're not fooling anyone. Period. If this thread is for trolling, at least do it right and don't try to pretend that it's for another reason that stupid fanboyism.

Of course SDF is overdoing it here, but let's be honest, Forza 3 promo was a misleading bullshot fest and they lost credibility over this. No reason to defend that attitude. Looking forward to Forza 4 bullshots already.

 

[Interfectum]

They played their game (the demo at least), found it awesome on every aspect, and that's it.

Check the official Forza thread.

They're all over each other in there - calling for bans and accusing people of trolling just because they're pointing out the many deficiencies in the demo.

Hardly the 'found it awesome on every aspect' consensus you're trying to portray it as.

 

[Cheeto]

Of course SDF is overdoing it here, but let's be honest, Forza 3 promo was a misleading bullshot fest and they lost credibility over this. No reason to defend that attitude. Looking forward to Forza 4 bullshots already.

Photomode shots are bullshots now?

 

[LordPhoque]

Of course SDF is overdoing it here, but let's be honest, Forza 3 promo was a misleading bullshot fest and they lost credibility over this. No reason to defend that attitude. Looking forward to Forza 4 bullshots already.

Turn 10 is not the only developer who's using bullshots. Their ones were pretty close to the game actually. Environnements and models are pretty much the same, except for IQ.

Check the official Forza thread.

You'd like to post in there, right ? I can feel it. Must be so frustrating :lol Dude, your ridiculous. You have no lessons to give. Your post history speaks for itself.

 

[phil_t]

Mad? hardly, I find it rather humorous how people can support such a developer that lies through its teeth. It makes it more interesting when these are the same people that are the type to call to arms when other companies lie.

I don't think anybody likes developers who 'lie' no matter what the context.

However, FM3 is a great game (well the demo is)..

lets not forget that marketing inaccuracies (or lies as we call them) are quite prevalent in the industry.

Do we chastise the KZ2 CGI being passed as in-game?

Do we baulk every time KY gives us a 'future of GT' presentation that is pie in the sky, or promises 'GT5p will have damage' that never appears, or 'GT4 online' that wasn't..?

I think to just Tar T10's marketing as being the worlds worst yet pass on everyone else's mis-truths is being a bit over dramatic don't you think?

I'm sure you'll have a million excuses as to why when other developers are being wholly honest, it's OK..

 

[Puck]

Turn 10 is not the only developer who's using bullshots. Their ones were pretty close to the game actually. Environnements and models are pretty much the same, except for IQ.



You'd like to post in there, right ? I can feel it. Dude, your ridiculous. You have no lessons to give. Your post history speaks for itself.

I swear, half of the posters in this thread are more than just consumers. It's quite obvious you have a little more than just an interest in the Forza game. If it weren't for your awful grammar i would have definitely called you out as an MS employee, i reckon there is quite a few undercover in the thread anyway.

 

[Interfectum]

You'd like to post in there, right ?

No need to post in there.

You're all coming in here

 

[Shurs]

Photomode shots are bullshots now?

Uh, yeah.

 

[Kaako]

All I know is we need more custom drawings up in this piece. Try showing your feelings and emotions through your drawing comparisons. You can draw representations of the Forza and GT5 car models and compare your drawings as well. Now this wouldn't really be fair cause m0dus is on the Forza side and Wollan is banned. Don't know if Chubs will come through and Orioto ain't sure as hell gonna do it.

Spoiler

What the fuck am I talking about?!

 

[Windom Earle]

Photomode shots are bullshots now?

I take it you missed the whole "downgraded in game models" debate here?

Turn 10 is not the only developer who's using bullshots. Their ones were pretty close to the game actually. Environnements and models are pretty much the same, except for IQ.

No.

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

With the comparison to Forza 3, are they using GT5P?

If they are, why are they comparing a release copy of a game to an old cut down version? Shouldnt these sites wait until both games are released before making comparisons?

 

[TTP]

Uh, yeah.

It really depends on the photomode (supersampling or not) and on what you do with the tweaking options (if any).

 

[Cheeto]

I take it you missed the whole "downgraded in game models" debate here?

Yeah I guess I did, I guess I could read through the thousands of posts. Nah, when I get home from work I'll play the forza demo with my head taped to my TV so I can participate here.

 

[Senua]

hey guys whats goin down

 

[Dina]

Mad? hardly, I find it rather humorous how people can support such a developer that lies through its teeth. It makes it more interesting when these are the same people that are the type to call to arms when other companies lie.

Yeah, because Sony has never, ever, lied about bullshots, graphics that weren't gonna be or other preview-related gaming info, right? If anything, Turn 10 learned from the best in the biz. Now tell me why you didn't see this coming.

That goes for Interfectum as well? If you're all up in arms about developers lying to you, how on earth do you still justify that PlayStation 3 sitting under your tv.

 

[nib95]

Turn 10 is not the only developer who's using bullshots. Their ones were pretty close to the game actually. Environnements and models are pretty much the same, except for IQ.

No they weren't even though they said they were. And that's the point. Most companies use bullshots, we all know that. But most bullshots just add extra AA and AF. Turn10 (Che) actually came out and said the models in the bullshots were exactly the same as the one's in game. And that was the blatant lie, not the use of the shots themselves. Because as anyone who has been following this, or just played the demo knows. The actual in-game race models are quite different from the photo mode/replay/pre-race models.

 

[Shurs]

It really depends on the photomode (supersampling or not) and on what you do with the tweaking options (if any).

The LOD on the player car, which is usually the focus of the shot, is higher than the in game model with added AA, DOF and motion blur.

 

[mujun]

But it is multiplatform, and frankly the fact that Forza and Shift are comparable graphically at all is quite embarassing, Forza 3 being a 1st party sequel.

Another genius comment, sure the only way to judge the quality of a product is the graphics. It's not like a whole bunch of work has been done on all the other aspects of the game.

Ugh.

 

[RSTEIN]

Mad? hardly, I find it rather humorous how people can support such a developer that lies through its teeth. It makes it more interesting when these are the same people that are the type to call to arms when other companies lie.

There are lot of lies and exagerrated claims made in this industry. What Turn 10 did is pretty harlmess and I find it laughable that someone would go so far to say they intentionally lied or deceived the public. Che mispoke about photomode. Yes, a higher poly model is swapped in for the player car during photomode. Everything else is the same - AI cars, environments, textures, background, etc. etc (with AA added, of course). Plus, they released direct feed footage on their own website and allowed several gaming sites to capture direct feed footage. I'm not sure how you can say they lied about how the game would look when they released 720p/60fps direct feed footage :lol

There are more serious cases. One off the top of my head is Epic games. In several interviews before Gears 2 released, they assured us the awful network code of Gears 1 had been fixed to eliminate glitches and host advantage. Well, that was a lie about something very fundamental to gameplay. Not fixing host advantage meant that half the game is basically unplayable.

With Forza 3, we're talking about 1 of 8 cars on the screen that doesn't have the poly count that was previously thought. It has no bearing on gameplay whatsoever. In fact, as someone else mentioned in the Forza 3 thread, nobody even noticed this when the direct feed footage was released!

If you only support developers that "don't lie through their teeth" then you must not buy a lot of games. What about when Sony released their PS3 mock up with 2 HDMI ports? Or when they greatly exagerated the performance capability of the PS3 before launch? You must not buy any Xbox games, either. Peter Moore said the 360 would "end jaggies." What about all the AAA multiplatform devs that lied about their games looking and playing identically across the two platforms?

 

[Doc Evils]

I don't think anybody likes developers who 'lie' no matter what the context.

However, FM3 is a great game (well the demo is)..

lets not forget that marketing inaccuracies (or lies as we call them) are quite prevalent in the industry.

Do we chastise the KZ2 CGI being passed as in-game?

Do we baulk every time KY gives us a 'future of GT' presentation that is pie in the sky, or promises 'GT5p will have damage' that never appears, or 'GT4 online' that wasn't..?

I think to just Tar T10's marketing as being the worlds worst yet pass on everyone else's mis-truths is being a bit over dramatic don't you think?

I'm sure you'll have a million excuses as to why when other developers are being wholly honest, it's OK..

"Do we chastise the KZ2 CGI being passed as in-game?"

Guerrilla did deliver on the graphics department, no one can argue that and put backbenchers at rest.


"Do we baulk every time KY gives us a 'future of GT' presentation that is pie in the sky, or promises 'GT5p will have damage' that never appears, or 'GT4 online' that wasn't..?


KY did over promise during the PS2 era and got his fair share of smack, but again this generation with GT5 he will be delivering damage and car rolls. we already saw the early damage with the Subaru.


The developer that you mention that has lied has been called out and they have delivered or will be delivering, what makes Turn 10 special to be excluded from this criticism?

 

[D'ultimate]

Do we baulk every time KY gives us a 'future of GT' presentation that is pie in the sky, or promises 'GT5p will have damage' that never appears, or 'GT4 online' that wasn't..?

KY lie or mislead...

Whatcha talkin 'bout Willis?!?

 

[Senua]

Online gaming.

i want to laugh but i am one of the idiots paying :\

 

[Cheeto]

The LOD on the player car, which is usually the focus of the shot, is higher than the in game model with added AA, DOF and motion blur.

Oh I see, so its really only an issue for people that play in third person?

 

[shuyin_]

Edit: ^^^ Indeed :lol



No it really doesn't. But your attitude does a much better job at summing it up.

Watch out: Another SDF-drone attack incoming

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Cut the crap man. Want to be objective? Start reading the thread two or three pages back. For every post like his (that says 'Forza 3 is crap, or Forza devs are liars' or whatever the heck they say), there is at least one like yours, that says 'GT fanboys are trolls, SDF drones are attacking' and some retarded shit like that. So stop acting as if only GT fanboys are acting stupid. Forza fanboys act just as stupid. And imo, at least the GT trolls are right when they say GT looks better than Forza (that's the impression i got from the many videos i saw).

 

[Vlightray]

This thread is pure fucking gold we need more like this.:lol

 

[spyshagg]

Yes they are, bud.

couldn't see them in the forza vs GT video posted back

 

[Doc Evils]

There are lot of lies and exagerrated claims made in this industry. What Turn 10 did is pretty harlmess and I find it laughable that someone would go so far to say they intentionally lied or deceived the public. Che mispoke about photomode. Yes, a higher poly model is swapped in for the player car during photomode. Everything else is the same - AI cars, environments, textures, background, etc. etc (with AA added, of course). Plus, they released direct feed footage on their own website and allowed several gaming sites to capture direct feed footage. I'm not sure how you can say they lied about how the game would look when they released 720p/60fps direct feed footage :lol

There are more serious cases. One off the top of my head is Epic games. In several interviews before Gears 2 released, they assured us the awful network code of Gears 1 had been fixed to eliminate glitches and host advantage. Well, that was a lie about something very fundamental to gameplay. Not fixing host advantage meant that half the game is basically unplayable.

With Forza 3, we're talking about 1 of 8 cars on the screen that doesn't have the poly count that was previously thought. It has no bearing on gameplay whatsoever. In fact, as someone else mentioned in the Forza 3 thread, nobody even noticed this when the direct feed footage was released!

If you only support developers that "don't lie through their teeth" then you must not buy a lot of games. What about when Sony released their PS3 mock up with 2 HDMI ports? Or when they greatly exagerated the performance capability of the PS3 before launch? You must not buy any Xbox games, either. Peter Moore said the 360 would "end jaggies." What about all the AAA multiplatform devs that lied about their games looking and playing identically across the two platforms?

The cases you mention has had the companies called out for their shenanigans.

The main problem here is immature smack talk from the creative director that doesn't have the goods to be backed up by, which lead to these type of callouts to happen. Do you really think this thread would of happened if he didn't say anything? Dan Greenwalt is the one responsible for this thread, so they have everything criticism coming to them.

 

[spyshagg]

I don't even know where to begin with this one.

For starters, you may want to check out this magazine.

Oh I'm so sorry. It is afterall named after a magazine I never heard of.


I liked it better when It was because its Italian and therefore must be hardcore, because its italian and foreign names rock.


I just don't like the name, ok. It doesn't scream motorsport.


More physics!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NE-fb5o2zk

 

[eso76]

That's my main reason. Nothing else can make up for the lack of G25 support.

I thought this thread was a good opportunity to educate fans on both sides

I suspect i was wrong. Forza fans will walk away from this thread claiming GT5 has no damage, Gt fans will still think Forza is an arcade racer, because it doesn't look as realistic as Prologue.

 

[TheSeks]

Do you really think other racing games are different ?

Do you really believe that pushing your stick all the way left while going at higher speeds = turning your wheel 90..heck, 450° degrees left ? good luck playing like that.
That's what all racing games need to do with a pad, steering is not linear.

Other racing games at least let you be able to take turns with the controller. No such luck with Forza 2 unless you jump to 10-30 MPH. Good luck winning races like that.

 

[Interfectum]

Cut the crap man. Want to be objective? Start reading the thread two or three pages back. For every post like his (that says 'Forza 3 is crap, or Forza devs are liars' or whatever the heck they say), there is at least one like yours, that says 'GT fanboys are trolls, SDF drones are attacking' and some retarded shit like that. So stop acting as if only GT fanboys are acting stupid. Forza fanboys act just as stupid. And imo, at least the GT trolls are right when they say GT looks better than Forza (that's the impression i got from the many videos i saw).

Forza fans are getting quite personal in this comparison thread.

Instead of talking about the games at hand they spend most of them time name-calling or throwing insults.

I guess that's the only resort when the game you've been championing with bullshots for the last 2 years turns out to look worse than a 2 year old rushed demo.

 

[KHarvey16]

Other racing games at least let you be able to take turns with the controller. No such luck with Forza 2 unless you jump to 10-30 MPH. Good luck winning races like that.

Ooops, more bullshit.

I just played some of it again this morning and took a look at that controller steering thing I was talking about. It also applies to the wheel as well. It kicks in when you are going faster than 85-90km/hr.

That makes sense because when you are going that fast and you decide to turn the wheel that sharply you are just going to understeer off the road. I suppose it's there to give players an easier time going down straights without having to carefully correct their steering to remain straight. The controller analog stick doesn't provide a whole lot of degrees of movement so it makes sense.

 

[mentalfloss]

Beloved console warrior sites have chimed in with comparisons - some claiming Forza 3 looks better - http://www.gameswire.net/screenshots/forza-motorsport-3-better-than-gt5p-after-all_179.html and

Others with videos that give an edge to GT5- http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...9d27-Forza-3-vs-GT5-Prologue-comparison-video.


Concerning above: - I think these screenshots who are chanting victory for Forza are missing some major points. Prologue was released at a time when Uncharted 1 had just launched. Devs were struggling with memory allocation, taming Cell, and a whole host of other issues that I'm sure this forum is aware of. Despite all those burdens, Prologue launched with a modified 1080p display mode with 60fps, no easy feat.


The World Wide Tech Sharing initiative will insure Gran Turismo 5 a pretty HUGE boost in visual fidelity. Lets hope PD gets its act together for Fall 2010 :lol.

It's clear by the video that GT really nails everything that has to do with vehicle detail and Forza nails everything else - including the fun.

Don't get me wrong, there's no doubt that vehicle interiors look a lot nicer in GT, but that comes off as an aesthetic novelty that doesn't hold up over time. You can tell by the Forza vids -- the way the car shifts/sways and the positions of vehicles relative to each other -- that Turn 10 sacrificed a bit on the visuals in order to focus on more involving gameplay.

Also the collisions/damage model is a bit more convincing with Turn 10. Yes, I've seen the hanging car parts with GT and they are making an attempt, but there doesn't seem to be much of an aesthetic change, and you really really need to ram the car into the wall to get any level of noticeable damage .

Both games look great, but I'd give the nod to Forza 3 unless GT can compete a bit more on any level other than aesthetics.

 

[Cheeto]

Forza fans are getting quite personal in this comparison thread.

Instead of talking about the games at hand they spend most of them time name-calling or throwing insults.

I guess that's the only resort when the game you've been championing with bullshots for the last 2 years turns out to look worse than a 2 year old rushed demo.

Imagine if they had to pay $40 for the demo!