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Media Create Sales: Week 32, 2012 (Aug 06 - Aug 12)

Somnid

Member
Why not, Sony does it too? I mean at least a little lower, it's totally ridiculous especially since as urfe already said retail games are sold for less than the suggested price nearly everywhere which makes the DD versions actually more expensive than the retail ones.

Is Sony selling more games or something? I don't think anyone cares what they are doing unless they have something to show for it. Sony is aggressively pushing DD because they do want to cut retailers out of the equation and they do want to sell expensive storage solutions. Not because they want to give you better deals.

Nintendo started to do 20% off weeks for certain digital games (with one already over and the next to follow who knows when), hopefully the DD versions of retail games will be part of these bargains in the future.

I imagine they will. It's fine for them to discount every once in a while, they just aren't going to have these odd everyday prices that are below MSRP.

Really Nintendo's DD isn't positioned as something that can be good or bad in terms of sales. They aren't trying to transition sales which is the single biggest difference between them and literally everyone else, they are simply offering alternatives. As such they will sell the exact same amount as they would have if they never had it but perhaps some people are enticed by having game on them all the time or will buy some out of print titles later on. 5% for Mario is just 5% they get a slightly bigger cut on. 20% for Oni Training means there's a big difference in the way people play and would like to own certain games and this is completely expected.
 

extralite

Member
Sony is aggressively pushing DD because they do want to cut retailers out of the equation and they do want to sell expensive storage solutions. Not because they want to give you better deals.

Obviously. Sony DD isn't cheaper than actual retail though. Nintendo DD is more expensive. That way, as a consumer I feel they might as well not have bothered and these numbers confirm that. Unless it's just seen as a first baby step this DD strategy is only catering to stores. As commented, it even seems to be intended to put buyers off the DD road.

Edit: For a Nintendo DD-only success story one might refer to Denpa Ningen no RPG though. That one ranks #2 all time eShop sales after Pokemon AR Searcher (which is very similar in concept, btw) with 19631 ratings. That's almost 20000 confirmed sales, the actual number might be much higher as not everyone who downloads a game also rates it. The higher ranked PMARS only has 8839 ratings but more sales, for example.
 
If Mario 5% is pretty low, Oni Training 20% is really good, imo, and indicates how certain games might have a viable market with the digital delivery.
 

Gradivus

Member
If Mario 5% is pretty low, Oni Training 20% is really good, imo, and indicates how certain games might have a viable market with the digital delivery.

Small games are easier for the SD cards given with the 3DS (unless you buy a bigger one). That's one reason why I bought Mario over downloading it. My Japanese 3DS has nearly ran out of room for stuff after all the demos and DLC games that I've got on it so far :p
 

Hero

Member
I wonder if these people complaining about retail NSMB2 being cheaper than digital have ever worked retail before. Retailers can price the game as they wish after they've bought it from a publisher and since there's a bit of wiggle room they can run discounts on it to get more sales. Nintendo is just releasing it at MSRP on the eShop. If they wanted to they could easily offer it at 29.99 or most likely even 19.99 if they wanted to but then this would piss off every single retailer as that would mean lost sales for them.
 
If Mario 5% is pretty low, Oni Training 20% is really good, imo, and indicates how certain games might have a viable market with the digital delivery.

I mean I feel digital works better for Oni Training because it's a pick up for 5-10 minutes a day game like Animal Crossing or Nintendogs.
 

Forever

Banned
I wonder if these people complaining about retail NSMB2 being cheaper than digital have ever worked retail before. Retailers can price the game as they wish after they've bought it from a publisher and since there's a bit of wiggle room they can run discounts on it to get more sales. Nintendo is just releasing it at MSRP on the eShop. If they wanted to they could easily offer it at 29.99 or most likely even 19.99 if they wanted to but then this would piss off every single retailer as that would mean lost sales for them.

How does Sony get away with it then? I'm honestly curious.
 

muu

Member
Obviously. Sony DD isn't cheaper than actual retail though. Nintendo DD is more expensive. That way, as a consumer I feel they might as well not have bothered and these numbers confirm that. Unless it's just seen as a first baby step this DD strategy is only catering to stores. As commented, it even seems to be intended to put buyers off the DD road.

Edit: For a Nintendo DD-only success story one might refer to Denpa Ningen no RPG though. That one ranks #2 all time eShop sales after Pokemon AR Searcher (which is very similar in concept, btw) with 19631 ratings. That's almost 20000 confirmed sales, the actual number might be much higher as not everyone who downloads a game also rates it. The higher ranked PMARS only has 8839 ratings but more sales, for example.

?????? It's the full retail price everywhere; countries outside of the US just happen to price games way the hell below MSRP. Nintendo's stated many times that they intend to coexist with retailers, and this supports their statement.

And what really is the problem w/ a noncompetitive price? The only time period that downloads are 'cheaper' when offered for a lower price is within the first month, after which point you can buy used for much lower cost if you choose anyway. Making pricing the focus of the argument ignores the fact that, despite there being a used market where games can be had for likely 1/2 the price, games like the 3DS triad and a lot of the other Ninty 3DS/Wii games are consistently pushing new copies of the game, week after week. Bargain hunters already know to look at the used games market, and not even a 10-15% lower DL price is going to make it a better deal in the long run.

This really isn't too far off from the way MS is doing their Games on Demand service; granted the only things on there are Platinum Hits games that have already been lowered to $19.99. Should we burn them at the stake too though, considering you can get many of these games for $5-$10 if you know where to look?

How does Sony get away with it then? I'm honestly curious.

Do they? There's obviously leverage on Sony's part because they do more than just games, but things that are overly anti-consumer aren't going to get the shelf space it needs to survive. I can't recall seeing a PSP Go in the wild being properly advertised, and you can say similar things about the Vita now. Stores won't outright not carry things if not carrying them means they'll lose out to their next-door sales competitor, but the powers at be definitely have less interest carrying stuff that make them less money -- especially a product that isn't selling well as it is. Easiest way to see this in action (albeit the other way) is by walking past the Apple product space in a Best Buy -- they might not make a cent off the app store sales, but sales rate and margin for i***'s are likely good enough that they're compelled to make dedicated space for them in the most walked-through parts of the store.
 

extralite

Member
?????? It's the full retail price everywhere; countries outside of the US just happen to price games way the hell below MSRP. Nintendo's stated many times that they intend to coexist with retailers, and this supports their statement.

If the majority of shops somehow marks down the prices then the MSRP becomes more expensive than the actual price. As a customer you can shop around and I don't think I ever bought a Japanese game at the MSRP. Amazon always has discounts of 10~18% and convenience stores do too. Bic Camera may not price it quite that low but they have a point card system as do most smaller shops. You will simply not pay MSRP, even on first day (unless you don't care for your money). After that bargains may increase even.

If you compare actual prices then Sony's lower download prices simply adjust for the retail reductions and Nintendo is missing this. Sony's pricing is anything but aggressive in Japan, Nintendo's is bordering on anti-advertising.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Of course DQX is among the top sellers, it's been out for two weeks and there were no new releases. Everything else would be a major disappointment.
 

Daschysta

Member
Correct me if i'm wrong, but is Final Fantasy XI not confirmed to be Square Enix's most profitable final fantasy game of all time, meaning surely one of their most profitable games ever? Given Dragon Quest X's much greater japanese sale, doesn't it stand to reason that if it sells even remotely as well as FFXI in the west it should be even more profitable to square if subscriptions don't lapse tremendously after the free trial period?

It could end up being Squares most profitable game ever in the long run, especially if it sees a renaissance on the Wii-U.

Are servers still packed in Japan? If so it bodes well for people continuing their 'scripts.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but is Final Fantasy XI not confirmed to be Square Enix's most profitable final fantasy game of all time, meaning surely one of their most profitable games ever? Given Dragon Quest X's much greater japanese sale, doesn't it stand to reason that if it sells even remotely as well as FFXI in the west it should be even more profitable to square if subscriptions don't lapse tremendously after the free trial period?

It could end up being Squares most profitable game ever in the long run, especially if it sees a renaissance on the Wii-U.

Are servers still packed in Japan? If so it bodes well for people continuing their 'scripts.

Yeah the key obviously is how many subscribers SE can hold onto. They have to be pleased right now, but it is still very early.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Way too soon to tell, let's see how things look 2-3 years from now when the game has establisbed itself on a more robust System with the WiiU.
 

Daschysta

Member
Of course we'll have to wait and see, good initial sales are only a good thing though.

Do we know if the Download codes sold at retail are counted under the 5% figure we got for NSMB2? If not they are counted under retail sales, same as the physical copy correct?
 

randomkid

Member
Yeah, if we're using profitability as the success metric for DQX (which I think makes sense) it's pretty useless to discuss anything for the next half decade or so right? How long did it take FFXI to become the most profitable Final Fantasy ever? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years? It'll take a long-ass time to know whether Square Enix made the right decision giving up the potential for millions in profit upfront as with DQIX.
 

Kazerei

Banned
In the west, I don't think DQX will be nearly as successful as FFXI was. The FF series is very well-known here, DQ is not.

Releasing DQX on PC would probably help alot.
 

Terrell

Member
If the majority of shops somehow marks down the prices then the MSRP becomes more expensive than the actual price. As a customer you can shop around and I don't think I ever bought a Japanese game at the MSRP. Amazon always has discounts of 10~18% and convenience stores do too. Bic Camera may not price it quite that low but they have a point card system as do most smaller shops. You will simply not pay MSRP, even on first day (unless you don't care for your money). After that bargains may increase even.

If you compare actual prices then Sony's lower download prices simply adjust for the retail reductions and Nintendo is missing this. Sony's pricing is anything but aggressive in Japan, Nintendo's is bordering on anti-advertising.

It's the VERY FIRST RETAIL GAME available via digital download from Nintendo. There was bound to be hiccups and it's not like the pricing structure is set in stone. Let's not over-react.

NSMB2's DD sales account for 5% of the total sales of the game, according to Iwata, and 20% of Oni Training's total sales. Those are respectable numbers for the beginning of the service, considering the pricing model.


There's a theory I have as to what's going to happen moving forward. It's my belief that Nintendo will change its retailer policies so that, after the first run of the game, retailers are no longer obligated to stock them as they have been in the past (which is part of what accounts for the long tail on 1st-party sales)

After the 2 month period after release, availability becomes a bigger selling point for a game than who has the cheapest price. Newer games come out and take the shelf space of these games. Retailers would rather give space on the shelf to the new hotness than something they're obligated to carry and have less incentive to discount a game they're obligated to sell. So by taking away the obligation, where are those customers going to buy the game?

So basically what I'm saying is that Nintendo's DD strategy is to give retailers the big sales numbers and letting them move on from those titles, where Nintendo will take a bigger piece of the pie on long-tail sales throughout the remaining duration of the hardware's lifespan.

They could also do the budget Player's Choice sales exclusively online, and such a strategy would be within their power to make happen, as retailers have less to gain from those budget titles than they do from newer releases.

It's just a theory though, so I dunno.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I dunno how people think it's a bad thing retail competition, price cuts, etc, can be combined with the dd format the way Nintendo handles it. Maybe they don't offer it cheap themselves (they probably also don't offer retail games lower than MSRP on their online stores, making this similar), but if you find such great stores that sell everything cheap and under MSRP, you can still get it in DD form and so enjoy the lack of need for cartridge switching etc alongside the lower price. Kinda like buying Steamworks games in retail. I think it was kind of a given they weren't going to undercut retailers themselves, to avoid being PSP Go-ed.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
In the west, I don't think DQX will be nearly as successful as FFXI was. The FF series is very well-known here, DQ is not.

Releasing DQX on PC would probably help alot.

Well, both DQ8 and 9 sold more than 1 million units oversea.
 

Kazerei

Banned
Do we know actual figures for FFXI, and active userbase?

The active userbase was at ~500,000 worldwide, roughly half from Japan (link). I'm pretty sure that was the peak. No idea about actual software sales, especially since there were many releases.

DQX will easily hit that number in Japan, but it'll be interesting to see if it can actually hold that many subscribers over the years to come. I don't think a Western release will help that much. While FFXI was roughly 50/50, I think DQX is going to end up like 90/10.
 
I can't really envisage a scenario where DQX does well in the west.

If DQX weren't an MMORPG, I'd say the best bet for SE would have been to release it alongside the Wii-U and ride its coattail during its big launch, being the only RPG (outside of Darksiders II, if you count that) available on the system for early adopters who'd be choosing from a limited selection of games. However, being that it's an MMORPG, they never had that option to begin with, since those type of games rely on a large userbase to already be in place.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
If the spoiler part is true, I hope it's because
PSP increase and not because Vita decreased
.

Btw, nice for Dragon Quest X. Maybe word of mouth is helping sales?

I don't know at this point,
Vita decreased during the Gold Week while everything rose, it could even be lower this week...
 
The active userbase was at ~500,000 worldwide, roughly half from Japan (link). I'm pretty sure that was the peak. No idea about actual software sales, especially since there were many releases.

DQX will easily hit that number in Japan, but it'll be interesting to see if it can actually hold that many subscribers over the years to come. I don't think a Western release will help that much. While FFXI was roughly 50/50, I think DQX is going to end up like 90/10.

You have to consider that up to that period, Final Fantasy XI already received some expansions. If Dragon Quest X ended up to sell 600k in Japan with its initial release, do you really think it won't sell more than 70k in the West?
 
I highly doubt Square spent 7 years developing the game only to let it linger in Japan. I'm also expecting a PC version at some point down the line.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
You have to consider that up to that period, Final Fantasy XI already received some expansions. If Dragon Quest X ended up to sell 600k in Japan with its initial release, do you really think it won't sell more than 70k in the West?

Theorically SE already confirmed not only the Wii U version, that will be "compatible" with the Wii one, pushing forward the persistent world, but also the will to supporting the MMORPG every ten weeks for ten years, if the game will be successfull.
I think that the initial sales are good enough to convince SE in promoting the Wii U version (at least in Japan) and in proposing at least a first bunch of updates/expansions
 
If Mario 5% is pretty low, Oni Training 20% is really good, imo, and indicates how certain games might have a viable market with the digital delivery.

Mario still sold better digitally, so it proves a viable enough market despite the percentage. The only effect I can think of selling a large percentage digitally would be for them to stop bothering producing carts for some titles altogether, as there are real big costs involved there unlike offering a title as a digital download.
 
Theorically SE already confirmed not only the Wii U version, that will be "compatible" with the Wii one, pushing forward the persistent world, but also the will to supporting the MMORPG every ten weeks for ten years, if the game will be successfull.
I think that the initial sales are good enough to convince SE in promoting the Wii U version (at least in Japan) and in proposing at least a first bunch of updates/expansions

I wonder whether the arrival of the other SE MMORPG on Wii U could help DQX sales in the West.
 
Not even that. The type of game it is would not sell here on a subscription model, and they've ruled out microtransactions. There's no sustainable business model for it.

Who says the model is even sustainable in Japan? There a nice chance subscriptions fall off a cliff after a couple of months ala The Old Republic.
 

Metallix87

Member
Not even that. The type of game it is would not sell here on a subscription model, and they've ruled out microtransactions. There's no sustainable business model for it.

Maybe, like Monster Hunter 3: Tri, the Western release would feature no subscription fee?
 

Kazerei

Banned
You have to consider that up to that period, Final Fantasy XI already received some expansions. If Dragon Quest X ended up to sell 600k in Japan with its initial release, do you really think it won't sell more than 70k in the West?

100k on Wii U in the west would be a good number IMO. A PC release could do much better.
 
Maybe, like Monster Hunter 3: Tri, the Western release would feature no subscription fee?

Monster Hunter Tri wasn't an MMO so the whole subscription thing even in Japan seems strange. To localize Dragon Quest X and then continually update it without charging any microtransactions or subscriptions would probably lose them money. Just maintaining the servers for years would cost them money. There's no way the game gets released in the west without some kind of fees attached.
 

Metallix87

Member
Monster Hunter Tri wasn't an MMO so the whole subscription thing even in Japan seems strange. To localize Dragon Quest X and then continually update it without charging any microtransactions or subscriptions would probably lose them money. Just maintaining the servers for years would cost them money. There's no way the game gets released in the west without some kind of fees attached.

You don't think Nintendo might take the hit just to make the brand more popular in the West?
 
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