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NPD Sales Results for May 2015

i personally think of morpheus as the sega cd to sony's genesis. tech that everyone's excited about that's too expensive for right now and too early to really sell separately. give things about 4 years and maybe we'll start to see the equivalent of what the original playstation was for disc-based games. i don't think it'll happen on dedicated video game hardware though. part of the problem with the industry is that the big companies are way too big to accept such a shift in that direction.

I actually 100% agree with this. I think revolutionary add-ons have to be subsidized to such a degree that a critical mass is created(what Microsoft sort of did with Kinect, and Nintendo did do with the Wii). Otherwise you end up with bifurcated market at which point developers are loathe to take advantage of technology without consumers and consumers are reluctant to buy-in without software. Which means you get a series of "enhanced" experiences for games that run without the feature rather than exclusives. See the trouble Nintendo has had with the New 3DS, which has a net total of exactly one game. Square much prefers a visual downgrade of DQVIII to giving up sales, and as a consequence it loses what would otherwise be a system-mover in the Japanese market.

I think VR may well take-off, just not this generation, or not until the price is low-enough that it is a controller rather than a new system.

That also leads to my theory on the decline in consoles. I suspect it may not be so much casuals leaving as casuals diversifying. If you look at the level of electronics a family would own eight years ago, odds are you would see a handheld, one of a PS3/360, kids with their own computers(especially if at college) and a Wii. The very length of the last generation brought the prices down enough that multiple ownership was by the end somewhat common.

Today the actual need for such electronics has diversified. Every family member needs a phone, and with the WiiU being a bit of a luxury good, that leaves space for maybe one system, a situation reinforced by the fact that the software library across PC/XB1/PS4 is about 90% identical. Especially with PC games all having native controller support, and gaming laptops becoming more viable as console replacements(I recognize they are not going to equal the sort of performence PC Master Race members will care about but for 90% of consumers, what makes them a potential replacement is whether they run console ports comparably to consoles). As a consequence, if you want access to the big name titles, Assassins Creed, Fallout, what have you, you only need one of the three. For someone at University or in a small apartment in their 20s, a gaming Laptop is quite attractive for space reasons, and in my case I have had no reason to get a PS4/XB1 for that reason. But more importantly, no non-enthusiast consumer has any real reason to have both an PS4/XB1, or really to consider the WiiU at all. Furthermore, for most people, what matters is access, not exclusive access. If I am in a flat with two flatmates, having one PS4 or XB1 pretty much removes any need for anyone else in the flat to buy any other system given the limited amount of free time available and competing demands.

As a consequence, while I don't think the consumer base for video-game consoles has shrunk very much, I think the demand for more than one console among that base may have declined.

This is actually in my mind a source of a lot of Microsoft's struggle. The AAA model of multi-platform releases has led to such a lack of differentiation, that once people settled on a sufficient product they more or less stop looking, and Microsoft delivered a product that ran the 95% of software most people cared about worse at a higher price point, and then fell behind. And equally importantly, their big guns(Halo) were not utilized in the first two years in a way that might have mattered.

Nintendo, in turn, is in trouble because they do not support the 90% of software the median consumer is interested in at all, so a decision to purchase their product, especially at its price point, is a decision either to forgo that, or a luxury that only those intending to also purchase a PS4/XB1/Gaming PC can afford. They have somehow managed to produce a luxury good that offers an inferior experience to the median consumer.

Splatoon is the sort of thing that would really help Nintendo if Nintendo were selling the Xbox One. Its appeal outside of Nintendo's core audience is limited by the fact that its still an either/or choice for non-WiiU owners.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
I don't think there's a huge need for that. I think the coolest application of AR that I've seen is the Ikea cooking table that doubles as a stove.

There isn't a big need for AR right now on the mass market, but its growing.

What Is growing right now is AR in specialist areas such as Medical or Merchandising.
 
i personally think of morpheus as the sega cd to sony's genesis. tech that everyone's excited about that's too expensive for right now and too early to really sell separately. give things about 4 years and maybe we'll start to see the equivalent of what the original playstation was for disc-based games. i don't think it'll happen on dedicated video game hardware though. part of the problem with the industry is that the big companies are way too big to accept such a shift in that direction.

People are way too quick to write off VR as "niche" or too expensive.

Whereas Sega CD just gave you better graphics, VR is completely new and never before experienced by 98% of people.

Theres never been a true VR for consumers yet, theres really no way to know how the market will react. VR is truly amazing, we really don't know at this point what the public is willing to pay for it after they experience it. We really won't know until these headsets are out in the market.

VR isn't just another ordinary peripheral, this is something that most people have never experienced anything like in their life. When people first experienced motion controls like Wii and Kinect it ended up mostly as a "Wow, this is really cool and fun." Whereas most people experiencing VR for the first time its just jaw dropping and you almost can't believe its real.
 

AniHawk

Member
People are way too quick to write off VR as "niche" or too expensive.

Whereas Sega CD just gave you better graphics, VR is completely new and never before experienced by 98% of people.

Theres never been a true VR for consumers yet, theres really no way to know how the market will react. VR is truly amazing, we really don't know at this point what the public is willing to pay for it after they experience it. We really won't know until these headsets are out in the market.

VR isn't just another ordinary peripheral, this is something that most people have never experienced anything like in their life. When people first experienced motion controls like Wii and Kinect it ended up mostly as a "Wow, this is really cool and fun." Whereas most people experiencing VR for the first time its just jaw dropping and you almost can't believe its real.

i've used morpheus and oculus. the best thing about vr is when there's a game that requires you to only control the game with your head. the luge demo for morpheus was the best out of the 3-4 things i've tried for vr so far.

i remember the virtual boy and my first experience with it. initially i thought it was neat, but i wasn't familiar with the control scheme and i thought it was super weird. there was no intuitive way to understand the controller and with oculus i felt having the 360 controller really fought the sense of immersion to a point where i couldn't get into the game.

where vr needs to go is for it to be some sort of dedicated platform and for its controller to be some sort of advanced motion controller or probably better yet, a super advanced glove with all sorts of feedback sensors. right now it's a screen you put on your head with some motion controls. and it doesn't need to look any good, really. there just needs to be a strong concept that works well.
 

QaaQer

Member
i've used morpheus and oculus. the best thing about vr is when there's a game that requires you to only control the game with your head. the luge demo for morpheus was the best out of the 3-4 things i've tried for vr so far.

i remember the virtual boy and my first experience with it. initially i thought it was neat, but i wasn't familiar with the control scheme and i thought it was super weird. there was no intuitive way to understand the controller and with oculus i felt having the 360 controller really fought the sense of immersion to a point where i couldn't get into the game.

where vr needs to go is for it to be some sort of dedicated platform and for its controller to be some sort of advanced motion controller or probably better yet, a super advanced glove with all sorts of feedback sensors. right now it's a screen you put on your head with some motion controls. and it doesn't need to look any good, really. there just needs to be a strong concept that works well.

Are you going to buy any of the 1st generation vr models?
 
I'll get VR day one but I am a tech nerd who faps to this stuff, and I can afford it. Selling it to the average joe is going to be a hard sell IMO.
 

prag16

Banned
I'll get VR day one but I am a tech nerd who faps to this stuff, and I can afford it. Selling it to the average joe is going to be a hard sell IMO.
They probably even have work to do to really gain huge penetration in our crowd. I too am a fapping tech nerd who can afford it, but I'm far from sold and gaf is full of people like me with that stance. We'll see. I hope to at least try it at some point before too long though.
 
I keep telling this story, but I was in a day-care parent participation meeting, and out of the four women in that group, two had already tried VR through demoes that were offered through their work. One a demo for fear of crowds and open spaces, and one with fear of heights and the basic OR demoes (roller coaster etc). They both really liked it, and this was a year ago.

That's the kind of thing that leads me to believe it's serious this time. But I thought Sony's GDC presentation on control methods using DS4 was interesting as well. I peronally am really looking forward to VR, shame we still have to wait this long.
 

thelastword

Banned
It appears that Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare is one of those titles where the Xbox One version is stronger than the PS4 SKU.

There are only two months (including this one) where the PS4 version won. See the following:

November 2014 NPD:
360 > XBO > PS4 > PS3 > PC

December 2014 NPD:
360 > XBO > PS4 > PS3 > PC

Full Year 2014 NPD:
360 > XBO > PS4 > PS3 > PC

January 2015 NPD:
XBO > PS4 > 360 > PS3 > PC

February 2015 NPD:
XBO > PS4 > 360 > PS3 > PC

March 2015 NPD:
PS4 > XBO > 360 > PS3 > PC


April 2015 NPD:
XBO > PS4 > 360 > PS3 > PC

May 2015 NPD:
PS4 > 360 > XBO > PS3 > PC
Do you have any stats showing the disparity between leaderboards and online players?
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
I keep telling this story, but I was in a day-care parent participation meeting, and out of the four women in that group, two had already tried VR through demoes that were offered through their work. One a demo for fear of crowds and open spaces, and one with fear of heights and the basic OR demoes (roller coaster etc). They both really liked it, and this was a year ago.

That's the kind of thing that leads me to believe it's serious this time..

extrapolating.png
 
They probably even have work to do to really gain huge penetration in our crowd. I too am a fapping tech nerd who can afford it, but I'm far from sold and gaf is full of people like me with that stance. We'll see. I hope to at least try it at some point before too long though.

True, everyone I know of is very skeptical of it, but I know some who tried it and it changed their mind, but yeah they have their work cut out for them. It needs content support big time or it will fade fast.
 
VR will be a fad for a niche.

I don't think VR will be a fad, but the mainstream awareness is useless if the entry point is expensive. And it will be, even for PS4 and Morpheus. I think VR will rather sell to the existing owners and not bring too many new ones.

I think this will be the case too. The price of entry is just way too steep for mass adoption. I really hope it does take off though.
i already adressed your points in my first post. Here's the original post in case you were having trouble following the post's logic thread:

refreshment.01 said:

Regarding the concerns about sales decline for the home console market, i' ll just say im sticking to my belief that VR is goona provide a very important boost to the sector. Of course the benefits will be centered mostly around the PS4.

Is just that the experience is better suited for home consoles than mobile devices. i don't see price as a concern at the start since the dedicated consumer will be enough to sustain sales. Adding to this the demand probably won't be satisfied for some time so the price won't hurt any potential sales.

As for HMDs been available in other platforms. Well... consoles to this day still have the advantage of been perceived as more consumer friendly (aside from the fact that PC platform has made huge gains in ease of use), so that's aluring to someone that wants to get into the experience as quickly as possible.

VR will also increase the amount of consumer awareness and attention to this market segment as VR gets more to the mainstream and consoles work as gateways to the experience as quickly as possible.

VR will also increase the amount of consumer awareness and attention to this market segment as VR gets more to the mainstream and consoles work as gateways to the experience.

The highlighted part of the post covers the main points brought up by allan, Kingsnake and three.
 

Hunter S.

Member
I am doubting another price cut for the X1 this holiday. If prices stay the same I doubt the X1 will sell so much more come November and December. The idea that the X1 price cut was temporary when it in fact was not probably helped sell a lot more consoles during that holiday period.
 
Divided between console market is dying or doing great.

Also in the dark about 3DS sales. Some light would be good.

Yeah, we need 3DS numbers, we lack them.

Also, as said earlier, personally I'd like updates on older games like Tomodachi, Sunset Overdrive, Pikmin 3...and I'm not even asking you Bayonetta 2 because of course you're going to post an update about it anyway, right? Rrright?!? :p


The only conclusion we can reasonably make is that because Nintendo didn't bother with a press release and refused to make a statement to Venturebeat upon request, the comps must not be favorable.

And that extends to YOY software comparisons as well.

Last May Nintendo of America released Kirby: Triple Deluxe, Mario Golf: World Tour, and Mario Kart 8.

This May's Puzzle & Dragons Super Mario Edition and Splatoon just can't compare to that lineup.

In June 2014 we have the launch momentum of Mario Kart 8 fully realized, so I don't expect a PR statement from Nintendo next month either.

Tough couple of months for NoA.
 

Brashnir

Member
i've used morpheus and oculus. the best thing about vr is when there's a game that requires you to only control the game with your head. the luge demo for morpheus was the best out of the 3-4 things i've tried for vr so far.

i remember the virtual boy and my first experience with it. initially i thought it was neat, but i wasn't familiar with the control scheme and i thought it was super weird. there was no intuitive way to understand the controller and with oculus i felt having the 360 controller really fought the sense of immersion to a point where i couldn't get into the game.

where vr needs to go is for it to be some sort of dedicated platform and for its controller to be some sort of advanced motion controller or probably better yet, a super advanced glove with all sorts of feedback sensors. right now it's a screen you put on your head with some motion controls. and it doesn't need to look any good, really. there just needs to be a strong concept that works well.

Yep, and there's no way using it with a controller will get any traction with new audiences, because you had damn well better know that controller inside and out, since you can't see it with a monitor strapped to your face.
 
Why is this thread so dead...? :(

Maybe because the market is what it is at this point, and that until we get some kind of anything to look forward to in terms of new hardware or VR or something that nothing will change the current momentum? MS and Sony will keep beating eachother by 13k a month, the one big physical release will do great, random Nintendo games will chart but somehow still be flops, and the rest of the conversations will have been had so many times in so many months that it's all just kind of boring?
 
Yep, and there's no way using it with a controller will get any traction with new audiences, because you had damn well better know that controller inside and out, since you can't see it with a monitor strapped to your face.
We got those audiences playing with a Wii Remote. Do you remember? that little controller that used motion and had the two main fingers resting on an input. The 3 principal HMD makers basically have more advanced iterations of the Wii Remote.

More over, the audience that will drive sales for these things will have no big problems adapting to whatever control methods. This audience will sustain sales until following iterations and technology improvements will make these HMDs lighter and generally less intrusive to wear while driving the costs down, making VR more accessible to the mainstream audience.
 
Hmm, so far the gap is not back to previous hight. Any thoughts if it will surpass the previous max?
Batman bundle will do something but after that it's halo against star wars marketing deal. Could be that xbox will narrow the gap even further.
It all depends on sony if they are okay with the situation or if they are dropping the price.
 

Xenus

Member
Maybe because the market is what it is at this point, and that until we get some kind of anything to look forward to in terms of new hardware or VR or something that nothing will change the current momentum? MS and Sony will keep beating eachother by 13k a month, the one big physical release will do great, random Nintendo games will chart but somehow still be flops, and the rest of the conversations will have been had so many times in so many months that it's all just kind of boring?

That's unlikely. It more likely Sony will keep beating Microsoft in about 9 months a year and microsoft goes year end heavy. It's far more of a pattern at this point then the last 2 months.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned

Maybe because the market is what it is at this point, and that until we get some kind of anything to look forward to in terms of new hardware or VR or something that nothing will change the current momentum? MS and Sony will keep beating eachother by 13k a month, the one big physical release will do great, random Nintendo games will chart but somehow still be flops, and the rest of the conversations will have been had so many times in so many months that it's all just kind of boring?

Yeh I know... I just wish there was more discussion.

Hmm, so far the gap is not back to previous hight. Any thoughts if it will surpass the previous max?
Batman bundle will do something but after that it's halo against star wars marketing deal. Could be that xbox will narrow the gap even further.
It all depends on sony if they are okay with the situation or if they are dropping the price.

I don't know if it'll surpass the previous maximum this year.

But right now I expect PlayStation 4 to remain the cumulative sales leader in the USA and the gap between both consoles to start growing significantly from 2016 onwards.
 

Man... I can't believe how MS cut that lead down from almost 1.2 million to almost 400k...

That's a difference of almost 800k... and now the lead's almost back up to 800k...

So all MS needs to do is do whatever they did before, again, and they'll finally be at square even. But they need to do it now. The time is ripe.
 
Man... I can't believe how MS cut that lead down from almost 1.2 million to almost 400k...

That's a difference of almost 800k... and now the lead's almost back up to 800k...

So all MS needs to do is do whatever they did before, again, and they'll finally be at square even. But they need to do it now. The time is ripe.
Problem is: what they did was losing all dignity and cutting price like mad. Don't know if they are willing to do so once again. And if they do - does Sony react.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
We'll have plenty to talk about after E3. MS & Sony aren't done fighting for share yet. No one's conceding anything.

I just want Sony to spend the first 30 minutes of their press conference talking about sales figures, market demographics and future predicted performance. Like they used to back in the good old days.

(In case you have't noticed I love this kind of stuff haha)

So all MS needs to do is do whatever they did before, again, and they'll finally be at square even. But they need to do it now. The time is ripe.

You can't unbundle Kinect twice
 
Problem is: what they did was losing all dignity and cutting price like mad. Don't know if they are willing to do so once again. And if they do - does Sony react.

It's not like they conceded defeat though, and that's the problem (for Sony at least).

But yeah, not sure if Sony even knows how to react anymore. I don't think they have a leader with swag like that. They seem to still be making all their decisions by committee, which is kind of baffling. Just give the keys to the kingdom to goddamn Cerny already, wtf!
 

TomShoe

Banned
Well they did drop the price to $349, raise it back to $399, then two weeks later drop it back down to $349.

I think you may have just uncovered Microsoft's next major strategy to increase sales!!!

Just raise the price to $1999 for 2 days, then cut it to $299 for an amazing 80% fire sale. They won't have Xbox Ones on sale for weeks!
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
AniHawk said:
as much of a novelty as vr is, i don't know if $500 is going to be right for it.
It seems a bit of a stretch to suggest early VR adopters will be primarily late-console adopters/new buyers. I'd expect majority will be out of the 40M or so that will already own a PS4 by the time it launches, for whom the price of entry will be much less than the bundle.
The concept of VR doesn't even have the mainstream awareness for it to sell outside of the early-adopter crowd in first year(s), let alone acceptance.
 

joecanada

Member
Yeh I know... I just wish there was more discussion.



I don't know if it'll surpass the previous maximum this year.

But right now I expect PlayStation 4 to remain the cumulative sales leader in the USA and the gap between both consoles to start growing significantly from 2016 onwards.

Why do you think the gap will start growing in 2016? ps4 price cuts?
 
That chart perfectly demonstrates why gen 7 went on for so long and also how the industry is in a very clear contraction despite the PS4 and Xbox One doing well. The effects of mobile are undeniable and its not just because the 'Wii installbase went to mobile', I hate that narrative. This is on a much grander scale and is an industry wide trend.

Is that what the chart demonstrates? Note that in the sixth generation the most popular console launched first, whereas in the eighth gen the least popular console launched first. Taking that into account the eighth gen seems roughly on par with the sixth in terms of sales - stagnation, not contraction. Leaving the seventh gen as the outlier, which fits perfectly with the "Wii was a flash in the pan" narrative.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
Imru’ al-Qays;167683914 said:
Is that what the chart demonstrates? Note that in the sixth generation the most popular console launched first, whereas in the eighth gen the least popular console launched first. Taking that into account the eighth gen seems roughly on par with the sixth in terms of sales - stagnation, not contraction. Leaving the seventh gen as the outlier, which fits perfectly with the "Wii was a flash in the pan" narrative.

When you align the gens, 8th gen is currently 1 million ahead of 6th gen after 19 months of sales.

Of course when you look at actual launch dates, as you said, the PS2 launched first and sales skyrocketed so sales are ahead of this gen as the PS4/One launched a year later.

Why do you think the gap will start growing in 2016? ps4 price cuts?

Multiple reasons, basically the price for PS4 should be the same as Xbox One if not lower, Morpheus will be on the horizon + release in 2016 + PlayStation has larger mindshare and more games releasing and so consumers will be more likely to purchase a PlayStation 4 through 2016 than an Xbox One.

Also I'm basing this off projected trends from market research organisations as well.
 
you can't fire Mattrick twice neither.

I don't even think it was Mattrick's fault. Hats off to the guy for reading the writing on the wall and having that Zynga job lined up.

I think I remember it was really something about EA leading MS along with exclusives and unprecedented partnershits as long as they go through with all that DRM stuff, and Sony's hand was going to be forced to capitulate to EA's backroom maneuvering.

The thing that really pissed me off though is that only select retailers were going to get to be a part of their fancy little cartel shindig, and we all know what that really meant was letting GameStop run the train on us as long as we continue to buy exclusive DLC.

I will be damned before I let GameStop get any money from me.
 
When you align the gens, 8th gen is currently 1 million ahead of 6th gen after 19 months of sales.

The eighth gen is doing relatively well compared to the sixth gen and relatively poorly compared to the seventh gen, then? Doesn't this support the "fad Wii" theory as opposed to the "generalized contraction" theory?
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
Imru’ al-Qays;167685058 said:
The eighth gen is doing relatively well compared to the sixth gen and relatively poorly compared to the seventh gen, then? Doesn't this support the "fad Wii" theory as opposed to the "generalized contraction" theory?

Not really. The market has still contracted.

Come back in 5 years and see how gen 8 performs vs gen 6. (also when people say market has contracted, whilst yes I mean sales as well, it also means other things and not just number of units sold)
 

Erimriv

Member
Well they did drop the price to $349, raise it back to $399, then two weeks later drop it back down to $349.

I think you may have just uncovered Microsoft's next major strategy to increase sales!!!

Do you think X1 1 TB will be at 349$/€ this winter or should I get a bundle as of now for 349€, I can choose X1 500GB + ACU+AC BF + Rayman or X1+ Halo MCC, both for 349€, don't know what to do!! Buy it now or wait!

The new controller included with the 1TB is a plus over the 500 GB, but those are good deals.
 
Did some looking at their published titles list for 2015.

On the 3DS we have:
  1. Fossil Fighters: Frontier (???)
In both Japan and NA, Fossil Fighters steadily sells like shit for a long period of time to eventually achieve decent sales. Been that with every entry AFAIK, including Frontier's Japanese release. We'll see how Frontier does in the west over a super long period of time, though. Launch was like a couple thousand more here than STEAM in the US, though, so we know that for the short-term it was a bomba. For perspective the first game launched with like 90K here its first month. Not great but still significantly better than 30-ishK.

tl;dr: Put "Bomba" for now.
 

Fdkn

Member
Not really. The market has still contracted.

Come back in 5 years and see how gen 8 performs vs gen 6. (also when people say market has contracted, whilst yes I mean sales as well, it also means other things and not just number of units sold)

well it's not that simple, there was no digital on gen 6. That's a lot of games and money.
 
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