winjer
Member
Different versions of the BIOS?
How much difference did you see between them?
Could it be because of the mitigations against cpu degradation?
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Zen5 Review Thread.
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
Different versions of the BIOS?
How much difference did you see between them?
Could it be because of the mitigations against cpu degradation?
Insane Metal
Member
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Yes... full MT load examples I've seen.
180w, 210w, 145w, 155w , all at factory defaults, but differenct BIOS versions.
I haven't checked the very latest, but the first mitigation one added about 10w from the prior one (under full MT load), which occured well before the stability issue patches came in.
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winjer
Member
That is a lot of variance.
I have done a few bios updates with my 5800x3d and power usage in ycruncher was always inside margin of error. Around 110w.
Are you sure there wasn't something turned on or off, that could cause that difference.
Or maybe different power profiles.
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Pagusas
Elden Member
I've had this issue with my Asus X670e-I. EVERY SINGLE BIOS update is an adventure. Wild power limit difference at 100% defaults.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Is next gen for Intel supposed to include AVX512, or is Intel going to stick with their dumb policy of separating that into “professional” products?
Guilhermegrg
Member
Zen5 was not made for us, the gamers. We are third class citizens in this day and age.
All improvements were made for servers, workstations and AI.
This is more in line with what was expected performance wise. Is it possible that it's due to windows vs linux or just gaming workloads in general ? (or combination of both)
winjer
Member
Intel is adding AVX10 to their next CPUs.
And their plan is to eventually have a 512bit path with AVX10.2
But no word as to when that will happen.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I'm 1000% sure. Check this, even Tech Powerup has similar data.
13600K launch Blender 187w
13600K 2-years later in Blender 139w
Almost 50 watts difference.
marquimvfs
Member
Again with anecdotal evidence...
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Check the post above you, smarty pants, explain to me how Techpowerup went from 187w in 13600K launch review to 139w today in 13600K blender load, pretty sure they're seeing the same thing I did, the new BIOS use a lot less power than before...
marquimvfs
Member
My bad. Answered before reading the whole thread. Sorry about that. Also, there's some more happening in those charts. Some processors increased consumption, others decreased.
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marquimvfs
Member
Depends on what you're planning to do. If it's gaming, then, yes.
marquimvfs
Member
Neither do I believe in that. Diminishing returns over new gen triumphs suicidal CPUs anyday, haha.Cant believe my next pc will be intel
StereoVsn
Gold Member
With their current rate of progress, sometime in 2035…
Come On Tars
Member
Just waiting for the 7800x3d deal that will finish my build, any day now
PeteBull
Member
By far, basically only cpu worth getting if u got enough cash to pair it with high/top end gpu or u wanna futureprof urself till next gen consoles (u will be safe at least till 2028+ crossgen period of 2years=2030).
PeteBull
Member
If their goal was server gainz then why launch desktop version at under 5% perfromance increase avg(often perf decrease) and rise price by 40%? Those fkers wanted to squeeze out cash from their own fanboys w/o any reason.
Even nvidia isnt as nasty coz at least their 4090 even tho overpriced af, at least is top dog and by a solid margin both in raster and even more in rt perf, here with zen 5 we get nothing.
GHG
Member
Intel the best efficiency at idle.
To be fair that's all you'd want to do with those CPU's given the recent information.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What a terrible launch.
Did not expect this from AMD.
Did not expect this from AMD.
twilo99
Member
What price point would that be?
PeteBull
Member
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3hyH99/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d-42-ghz-8-core-processor-100-100000910wof below 370 usd now, with how bad zen 5 looks to be, i dunno if it will go down any lower anytime soon
marquimvfs
Member
MSI provided a boost in performance with a newer bios, also some cool memory and temperature tunning. https://videocardz.com/press-releas...o-15-higher-performance-for-ryzen-9000-series
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peish
Member
Zen5 crushes Zen4 in new AI benchmark, 35% faster in all tests
It’s another missing tools situation. Be patient but hop onto the zen5 while demand is low
It’s another missing tools situation. Be patient but hop onto the zen5 while demand is low
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
I see the 9950x prebuilts hitting Best Buy
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/clx-se...tb-nvme-m-2-ssd-black/6595743.p?skuId=6595743
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/clx-se...tb-nvme-m-2-ssd-black/6595743.p?skuId=6595743
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Funny to see the excuses looking back, I wonder when fanboys will reach acceptance...
but the MSRP... MSRP comparisons are useless, Zen4 reached much better value, ages ago.
but the efficiency... my 13600K saw bigger efficiency gains in a BIOS update.
but Linux... no one uses Linux.
but SMT off... no one is turning SMT off, on P-core only CPUs which will lose massive performance in many apps, to maybe gain a % or two in gaming, when the same platform already has much better gaming CPUs.
but the Windows bug... Intel CPUs see improved performance in games from running in Administrator mode as well, this was known long ago.
but Zen5 3D...
Seems Zen5 3D is the last hope.
but the MSRP... MSRP comparisons are useless, Zen4 reached much better value, ages ago.
but the efficiency... my 13600K saw bigger efficiency gains in a BIOS update.
but Linux... no one uses Linux.
but SMT off... no one is turning SMT off, on P-core only CPUs which will lose massive performance in many apps, to maybe gain a % or two in gaming, when the same platform already has much better gaming CPUs.
but the Windows bug... Intel CPUs see improved performance in games from running in Administrator mode as well, this was known long ago.
but Zen5 3D...
Seems Zen5 3D is the last hope.
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Zathalus
Member
Last hope for what? Intel is the company in deep shit right now across almost the entire product stack they offer. Their consumer sentiment has also taken a massive nose dive. Arrow Lake leaks don’t paint a picture of massive performance gains either. Consumer desktop CPUs is the only segment where they offer some form of competition.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Last hope for Zen5 having a meaningful upgrade over Zen4.
AM5 upgrade path has been abysmal so far.
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Zathalus
Member
It’s not a good upgrade if you are only into gaming. If AVX512, power consumption, and AI are things you are interested in then it’s a pretty good upgrade. It’s clear the focus was on servers and mobile.
Come On Tars
Member
What do you guys consider a good deal on a 7800x3d? I don’t have a microcenter nearby.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Power consumption is a concern for me. > 1/2 my PC use is web browsing and ebook reading, where even Raptor Lake is probably more efficient, since Intel CPUs are able to go to a lower power state in light usage scenarios.
Any efficiency I lose in high power workloads will be gained back by the time spent browsing and doing light tasks.
Codeblew
Member
I use Linux. There are less and less reasons to use Windows these days. The only thing I use windows for is games that won't work with Proton. What kind of fucked up OS needs an Admin account or run in Admin mode to get best performance. I mean, What?!?!?
Zathalus
Member
Idle efficiency is mostly useless for the use cases I mentioned. Your PC would need to spend something like 80% of the time in idle for it to make up the difference anyway.Power consumption is a concern for me. > 1/2 my PC use is web browsing and ebook reading, where even Raptor Lake is probably more efficient, since Intel CPUs are able to go to a lower power state in light usage scenarios.
Any efficiency I lose in high power workloads will be gained back by the time spent browsing and doing light tasks.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
But its useful for my use cases of web-browsing, ebook reading, light office, word proccessing, etc. Things that I do a lot.
The power difference between full idle and web-browsing/ebook reading/light office/word processing, etc. for me is miniscule, still probably lower on Raptor Lake than any modern Zen CPU.
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Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Also I'd like to point out, the highest CPU power task I do is video rendering. Its not something I do every day, not even every week. And rendering a video takes less than 10 minutes of maximum power, so I'm probably using maximum CPU power maybe 0.1% of the time. I don't know the exact number but its way less than 20% of the time where my CPU is at full tilt.
I can say for sure, the majority of the time my PC is in a low power state, with the various tasks I mentioned previously.
And I game at 120 FPS max, where efficiency differences of CPUs is unlikely to be all that different.
TPU for example shows Zen5 using anywhere from 15 watts less, to 25 watts more (on average) than 13600K in gaming, which even in the best case isn't enough to make up for Zen5s higher idle power, but they are testing at frame-rates higher than my limit, which is unrealistic for my setup.
When the FPS is locked to 120 FPS, the difference in gaming CPU power is probably miniscule with Zen5 vs. Raptor Lake.
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StereoVsn
Gold Member
Yeah, there is no way in hell anyone should be using that option to get a few extra frames. Already MS advises people to turn off memory protection.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I mean it depends, right? If we are talking up to 200 watt, then it’s manageable. If we have CPUs like Intel 14900k go and use almost 400w, then that’s ridiculous.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
It only does that if you remove power limits.
Zen5 is also not efficient when you remove power limits and allow the CPU to use a lot more power.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Man, I really hope Intel is paying you, because otherwise “just why.gif”…
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I don’t care about power usage but I am totally off grid solar powered
