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[Leonidas]

Don't forget how people were criticising AMD for setting excessive power and thermal limits at the zen 4 launch.

There were a bunch of reviewers going over how dropping power and heat resulted in very minimal performance losses.

The same is true of Raptor Lake.

 

[SportsFan581]

Linus results are way higher vs other reviewers but he is using low settings in most games (he also is a shill for every company that pays well so...).

Everybody used to use low settings. I can see where it could be trickier today since some of the high and ultra modes include ray tracing and other features that increase CPU usage.

 

[marquimvfs]

I found it sus that nobody was comparing these chips to their 65W equivalent chips from the previous generation.

What I find most ergious is that they just renamed their X parts to non X. Upped the prices and even removed the coolers, providing even less value. As per Daniel Owen's analysis of the 9600/9700X. So reviewers are conflating efficiency over names and not respective parts.

Wouldn't be suprised if they released the XT 105W+ SKU's sooner rather than later. Man.. its like they've took their GPU handbook or Nvidia's marketing and went fuck it, lol.

Imagine if non X parts come with 45 or even 30W tdp, that would be great.

 

[winjer]

Don't forget how people were criticising AMD for setting excessive power and thermal limits at the zen 4 launch.

There were a bunch of reviewers going over how dropping power and heat resulted in very minimal performance losses.

Yes, that is true.
And when using Curve Optimizer, it would lower power usage and increase performance.

 

[Hohenheim]

I'm currently on a i9 12900k on a 3090 rig. Will upgrade to a new 5090 rig next year, and was hoping for the new Zen 5 to be the obvious cpu choice.

Do you cpu experts here believe the upcoming top x3d version will be a significant upgrade from my 12900k?

 

[winjer]

This might just be the best explanation of why Zen5 is the way it is.
TLDR, Zen5 was not made for regular consumers and gamers, it was made for servers, AI and professional applications, where it's performance increased by very big margins, while reducing power usage.

 

[TheRedRiders]

 

[twilo99]

 

[SolidQ]

Sone info from above
9700X SMT disabled performance uplift @1080p:

Baldur's Gate 3 +6.78%

Remnant II +6.67%

Spiderman Remastered +17.17% and RT +15.82%

9700X SMT disabled performance uplift @1440p:

Baldur's Gate 3 +6.69%

Spiderman Remastered +17.22% and RT +18.73%

9700X SMT disabled performance uplift @ 2160p:

Baldur's Gate 3 +7.23%

Spiderman Remastered +5.16% and RT +8.10% (!!!!)

AND

+11.61% CS 1080p minimum fps

+12.63% Remnant II 1080p minimum fps

+60.27% Spiderman Remastered 1080p minimum fps

+22.50% Last of Us 1080p minimum fps

+8.30% Baldur's Gate 3 2160p minimum fps

+31.91% Spiderman Remastered 2160p minimum fps

Maybe new BIOS gonna fix SMT perfomance.

 

[Rossco EZ]

Seems like I’m safe from upgrading my 5800x3D for a while still

Best CPU I’ve owned.

yup still see no reason to upgrade just yet

 

[Bojji]

Everybody used to use low settings. I can see where it could be trickier today since some of the high and ultra modes include ray tracing and other features that increase CPU usage.

Low settings can be less CPU demanding. Games should be tested on ultra IMO with resolution low enough to avoid being GPU limited. Same is true for RT IMO, at some point CPU becomes the limit and many games are VERY CPU limited with RT.

 

[Leonidas]

 

[Celcius]

This shows the 7800X3D stomping the 9700X
Oof AMD

 

[TheRaidenPT]

Honestly for gaming we should always for the 3D variants. I'm curious about the 9800X3D tbh, even though I have the 7800X3D

I did the jump from the 5800X3D to the 7800X3D and got some good improvement in World of Warcraft

 

[twilo99]

 

[Soodanim]

This thread: people who for some reason upgrade their CPU every gen surprised that a non-X3D variant in a release cycle focused more on efficiency isn't wiping the floor with the X3D variant they already have in games.

 

[winjer]

Better yet, Zen5C.
Even lower power usage and lower die area.

 

[twilo99]

Better yet, Zen5C.
Even lower power usage and lower die area.

Isn’t that node server only tho?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

This might just be the best explanation of why Zen5 is the way it is.
TLDR, Zen5 was not made for regular consumers and gamers, it was made for servers, AI and professional applications, where it's performance increased by very big margins, while reducing power usage.

this is why marketing and messaging is very important.

 

[Celcius]

 

[Loxus]

Isn’t that node server only tho?

Nah, Zen5c are in laptops right now.


AMD Ryzen™ AI 9 HX 370
4x Zen 5 + 8x Zen 5c
16x RDNA3.5 CU

 

[twilo99]

Nice machine that. I don’t know they were using the zen 5c ..

I’m not liking all the comments about it running hot here despite running such low wattage..

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-zenbook-s-16-16-3k-oled-touch-screen-laptop-amd-ryzen-ai-9-365-24gb-memory-1tb-ssd-scandinavian-white/6584435.p?skuId=6584435

 

[Loxus]

Nice machine that. I don’t know they were using the zen 5c ..

I’m not liking all the comments about it running hot here despite running such low wattage..

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-zenbook-s-16-16-3k-oled-touch-screen-laptop-amd-ryzen-ai-9-365-24gb-memory-1tb-ssd-scandinavian-white/6584435.p?skuId=6584435

Asus may have not provided enough cooling?

That laptop can get pretty hot when gaming.
Asus Zenbook S 16 review (2024 UM5606WA- AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, Radeon 890M)

 

[marquimvfs]

Interesting to see that now they're adding efficiency to their battery of thests. And, even Zen5 not being so good as we initially thought, it's still good, like, 4 times or even more efficient than Intel in some scenarios. Now, with those tests added to the future benchmarks, it will be Interesting to see if Intel's new gen will solve it's second biggest problem, the efficiency.

 

[twilo99]

 

[Leonidas]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I came to see some reviews for this 9950X and nothing personal Leonidas when I saw it was you posting these reviews I knew it was bad news for AMD or you wouldn't be in here

 

[Kenpachii]

Unrelated towards zen 5, but for the upcoming chips probably relevant still.

U might want to check this out could give you almost double the fps.

 

[winjer]

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X Review - The New Flagship

With 16 cores and 32 threads, the Ryzen 9 9950X, powered by AMD’s Zen 5 architecture, is the fastest desktop processor we've ever tested. In our review, it breezed through application workloads and delivered high FPS rates in gaming. But at $650, it doesn’t come cheap.

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Ryzen 9 9900X Review - But that Price

The Ryzen 9 9900X, with its 12-core/24-thread design, is designed for those looking to go beyond eight cores. It delivers solid gaming performance and benefits from a 120W TDP. Despite its performance, the $500 cost is high, especially when considering similar products in its category.

www.techpowerup.com

Review: Ryzen 9 9950X processor

We review the ZEN 5 processor series, highlighting the powerful 16-core Ryzen 9 9950X. This model boasts the highest number of cores for consumers and operates at the fastest speeds. We're moving beyond high-end to the enthusiast tier of processors.

www.guru3d.com

Review: Ryzen 9 9900X processor

We review the Ryzen 9 9900X, a 12-core processor that transitions from high-end to enthusiast-level CPUs. This new series, built on the ZEN 5 architecture, can be used with current motherboards such as the X670 and B650 by simply updating the system's BIOS.

www.guru3d.com

 

[FireFly]

I came to see some reviews for this 9950X and nothing personal Leonidas when I saw it was you posting these reviews I knew it was bad news for AMD or you wouldn't be in here

If Leonidas doesn't post the Arrow Lake review thread, we'll know it's not a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[GHG]

Just saw the hardware Unboxed review for the 9950x, it's really puzzling to see how poor this CPU is overall, even the efficiency gains seem to be gone.

 

[winjer]

Just saw the hardware Unboxed review for the 9950x, it's really puzzling to see how poor this CPU is overall, even the efficiency gains seem to be gone.

Zen5 was not made for us, the gamers. We are third class citizens in this day and age.
All improvements were made for servers, workstations and AI.

AMD Ryzen 9 9950X & Ryzen 9 9900X Deliver Excellent Linux Performance Review - Phoronix

www.phoronix.com

 

[Leonidas]

Zen5 not being so good as we initially thought

What do you mean we?

Interesting to see that now they're adding efficiency to their battery of thests. And, even Zen5 not being so good as we initially thought, it's still good, like, 4 times or even more efficient than Intel in some scenarios.

And yet, Intel idle power is still lower...

 

[winjer]

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Zen5 was not made for us, the gamers. We are third class citizens in this day and age.
All improvements were made for servers, workstations and AI.

And to be honest we didn't need more power in the CPU dept right now anyhow

I do look forward to seeing what they can do with these CPUs in the handheld and console spaces

 

[Von Hugh]

And yet, Intel idle power is still lower...

Ah, yes, idling, the best use case for a computer.

 

[winjer]

And to be honest we didn't need more power in the CPU dept right now anyhow

I do look forward to seeing what they can do with these CPUs in the handheld and console spaces

I agree that, we gamers, are not aching for performance in the CPU space. Especially with the X3D parts.
But still, it would have been nice to get more than 3-5% performance improvements in games.
AMD put all their efforts into the enterprise sector.

 

[Celcius]

The dual-CCX solution is really disappointing for gaming.
I'd love to see an expensive cpu with single CCX but more cores.

 

[Leonidas]

Ah, yes, idling, the best use case for a computer.

My PC is idling / light usage over 1/2 the time it is in use. Meaning, my Raptor Lake CPU is more efficient than Zen4/Zen5 most of the time.

 

[winjer]

My PC is idling over 1/2 the time it is in use. Meaning, my Raptor Lake CPU is more efficient than Zen4/Zen5 most of the time.

Saying that you idle your PC half the day, just to claim that Raptor Lake is more efficient that Zen4/5, is really dumb.
Normal people will actually use their PCs, even if it's for lighter workloads, like office work, watching videos, browsing the web, etc.

Then again, the Techpowerup results don't match the Guru3d results at idle.
Probably meaning they might not have enabled the usual power saving features.

 

[Celcius]

Isn't Zen 4 -> Zen 5 basically just Intel 13th Gen -> 14th Gen?
aka basically the same thing but just a slight refresh?
aka overall disappointing

 

[Leonidas]

Saying that you idle your PC half the day, just to claim that Raptor Lake is more efficient that Zen4/5, is really dumb.
Normal people will actually use their PCs, even if it's for lighter workloads, like office work, watching videos, browsing the web, etc.

I consider light usage idling. Its too bad CPU reveiwers don't really do light usage tests, where CPU is barely using any power, like my PC right now as I type and post on NeoGAF for example...

 

[DryvBy]

Is there even a reason people need a new CPU? I'm still rocking a i7 6700k and haven't ran into a problem with anything yet.

 

[winjer]

Isn't Zen 4 -> Zen 5 basically just Intel 13th Gen -> 14th Gen?
aka basically the same thing but just a slight refresh?
aka overall disappointing

No. 13 and 14th gen are identical, except for clock speeds. They are the same architecture.
Zen5 is very different from Zen4, with a new dual 4-wide decoder, a new branch predictor, wider backend, etc.
The problem is that all these improvements benefit mostly workstations, AI and servers. Look at the Phoronix review, and you will se huge gains.
But these improvements do little for gaming.

 

[winjer]

I consider light usage idling. Its too bad CPU reveiwers don't really do light load tests, where CPU is barely using any power, like my PC right now as I type and post on NeoGAF for example...

What you consider is irrelevant. Idle and light workloads are different things, with different power usage.
Even something as simples as watching a youtube video can increase CPU power usage by 50%, over idle.
Or copying files, or browsing the web. Or using other lightweight applications.

 

[Sanepar]

Is there even a reason people need a new CPU? I'm still rocking a i7 6700k and haven't ran into a problem with anything yet.

Well if u have a RTX 4000 series GPU with a 6700k u are losing at least 25% peak perf and min fps.

 

[Loxus]

I consider light usage idling. Its too bad CPU reveiwers don't really do light usage tests, where CPU is barely using any power, like my PC right now as I type and post on NeoGAF for example...

How can light usage be idling???

If you're not using it for that long, why not just turn it off?

 

[Leonidas]

How can light usage be idling???

If you're not using it for that long, why not just turn it off?

Because my CPU literally downclocks (idling) and is using an average of 9 watts of power when I do light stuff like browing the web. When my CPU is dowclocked, I consider that idling.

It happens to me in some lighter games too as I don't let the FPS exceed my displays refresh rate.

In these types of games, Raptor Lake could also be more efficient than Zen4/Zen5.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Glad I didn't wait for Zen5 when I got a Zen4 Threadripper Pro system this year.

 

[winjer]

Because my CPU literally downclocks and is using an average of 9 watts of power when I do light stuff like browing the web. When my CPU is dowclocked, I consider that idling.

It happens to me in some lighter games too as I don't let the FPS exceed my displays refresh rate.

In these types of games, Raptor Lake could also be more efficient than Zen4/Zen5.

Idle means no work is being done.
And a modern CPU has several clock domains. FFS, even old CPUs used clock gating extensively.
If we are doing light workloads, it's normal for a CPU to throttle down several cores and just leave one or two doing work.
But that is not idle, that is light workloads. And it uses more power than idle.