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[Bojji]

Performance is ok with the right price. AMD were pricing their GPUs too high at launch of RDNA3.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

If it launches at the right price…

 

[vaibhavpisal]

This doesn’t make any sense.

They already have 7900xtx.

Why their latest flagship gpu be less powerful than that?

 

[Bojji]

This doesn’t make any sense.

They already have 7900xtx.

Why their latest flagship gpu be less powerful than that?

They don't have to invest as much money to create bigger GPU? Mid market is where money is, that 4070 super performance is sweet spot for most people.

But this move will only work with right price, good word of mouth and features comparable to NV + good RT performance.

 

[Rickyiez]

AMD conceding defeat even before the war started. Lisa Su has done it again , easy monopoly by her cousin Jensen

 

[Gaiff]

Performance is ok with the right price. AMD were pricing their GPUs too high at launch of RDNA3.

Would be great at around $450. We also need to know what the RT performance is like and if it comes with FSR4 and AI-upscaling. If it's good in those, then it will be a fantastic value product.

 

[Rickyiez]

They don't have to invest as much money to create bigger GPU? Mid market is where money is, that 4070 super performance is sweet spot for most people.

But this move will only work with right price, good word of mouth and features comparable to NV + good RT performance.

4070 super is mid end this gen and will be lower mid next gen. Its terrible to be falling down far behind , I thought it should be at least 4080 super

 

[MikeM]

AND already butchered the name. Just waiting for them to butcher the price…

 

[TheRaidenPT]

I’m happy with the 7900XTX but I was hoping for a 7800XT/7900 performance for cheap for my friends….

 

[Gaiff]

AND already butchered the name. Just waiting for them to butcher the price…

What do you mean butchered the name? The 9070 is a 9th gen card whereas NVIDIA only has up to 4th gen cards and will have 5th gen cards with Blackwell. 9070>5090.

You shouldn't have dropped out of elementary school, Mike.

 

[The Skull]

If it comes with FSR4 (better be AI driven) and a good uplift in ray tracing performance, coupled with aggressively competitive pricing then it may stand a chance but I can't see this happening. Their last great product at launch was the 5700XT.

 

[RagnarokIV]

wet noodle GPU

 

[RCX]

Raw performance numbers have to be taken with a grain of salt at this stage.

Chances are they're focusing on hardware backed ray tracing, machine learning etc, not just pure raster.

AMD needs to step up in terms of the whole suite of capabilities that nvidia brings (DLSS, dlaa, reflex, frame gen etc etc).

If they can bring this in at an attractive price, with vastly improved RT, FSR and frame gen then I'd be very interested.

 

[winjer]

Even now, it's mid tier performance.
When Nvidia releases their new gen, it might become closer to low tier.
But, what matters is the price.

 

[Boss Mog]

Who cares if the raster performance isn't some huge leap, it's not a flagship card. The important thing is will AMD be able to narrow the gap on RT.

If it competes with the 4070 Super in both raster and RT and is priced around $400-500 then it will be the new go to card for mid range buyers. I have a feeling the 5070 will probably cost $700-800.

 

[Mr Moose]

Synthetic benchmark.

 

[Gaiff]

Even now, it's mid tier performance.
When Nvidia releases their new gen, it might become closer to low tier.
But, what matters is the price.

No chance it becomes closer to lower tier. 4070S will remain fairly mid-tier. The 5060 or even 5060 Ti won’t be all that close.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Isn't that the same ballpark the next Intel cards are supposed to fall into?

 

[hinch7]

This doesn’t make any sense.

They already have 7900xtx.

Why their latest flagship gpu be less powerful than that?

Cheaper to produce and sell with more profit margin. Better image quality with ML based upscaling with FSR 4. And more performant RT.

RDNA 4 lays down the groundwork for the next generation of GPU's - UDNA and larger MCM designs for future GPU's.

If you don't care for RT sure RDNA 3, heck 2 is more than enough. Raster is fast enough though for the most part even on mid range cards.

 

[StereoVsn]

Rumor was under $500 card and if true it wouldn’t be too bad then.

I think major improvements are expected with RDNA4, right now AMD is in a holding pattern and will fight for mid market.

Edit: I thought AMD was still on RDNA 3.5. If it’s the new RDNA chip, then I am not sure what they are doing. Maybe mid market chip is going to be followed by high end on newer node or something in 2026?

 

[Celcius]

Same performance as an RTX 4070 Super = same performance as my RTX 3090 from 2020

 

[Wolzard]

You are complaining that even high end GPU's need to use DLSS and FG to get smooth FPS with maxed out PATH TRACING in 4K, yet console gamers play at 30-60fps and 1440-1080p (performance modes). DLSS often look as good as native TAA if not better, and DLSS FG is basically a free fps boost. If you have such insanely high standards and you think that PT games are unplayable on PC because of these AI features, then I can say that any game on consoles that does not run at true 4K native and real 120fps (fps without FG) are not playable either.

I am playing on a 1440p monitor, and I get around 110-120fps in the most demadning PT games thanks to DLSS quality and FG. With standard RT I get nearly 200fps.

Path Tracing

Psycho RT

27ms input latency, I could play this game competitively with Psycho RT and still have an advantage over other players.

At 4K I have to use DLSS performance in order to use PT, but considering how good DLSS performance looks, it still offers excellent image quality (especially with reshade).

Path tracing 4K DLSS performance

57ms, still very responsive gameplay, especially on gamepad (for comparison 60fps games on the PS5 have around 80ms input latency)

Psycho RT

BMW is the most demading PT game currently available, yet it runs awesome in 4K DLSSP + FG with fullPT and very high settings. I have no complaints because DLSSP with reshade still looks great and the game is perfectly responsive (in this particular game nvidia FG has the lowest input latency possible because it activate nvidia reflex).

To sum it up, I have to use AI feauters to play with PT at smooth fps, but that's a hardly a comprimise for me given how well these AI features works, so I'm enjoying playing games with fullPT regardless of what you said. From my perspective, PC platform (at least high end GPUs) is ready for PT. Soon RTX50 series will launch and people will be able to run PT games at smooth fps at 4K even without FG if that's a big problem for some.

As for standard RT, some RT games are so well optimized I can run them at well over 120fps even at 4K native, but let's pretend that RT games are not playable on PC.

Character reflection in TV, maybe a small detail for some, but I noticed it and was impressed.

Metro exodus (standard edition, because EE has overdone RT lighting and washed out blacks) with RT GI, the graphics looks way better with RT and still runs at well over 80fps even at 4K native TAA.

raster

Ray Tracing

RT

I notice that people in this post have a lot of difficulty understanding what something standardized is. To be standardized, it needs to be something common to everyone.
In other words, for RT to be an industry standard effect, I need to be able to run it on the masses, GPUs like RTX 3060, with good performance.
It's like the tessellation effect. In the beginning, it was super heavy, restricted to powerful GPUs. Years later, any iGPU runs this.

 

[Gaiff]

I notice that people in this post have a lot of difficulty understanding what something standardized is. To be standardized, it needs to be something common to everyone.
In other words, for RT to be an industry standard effect, I need to be able to run it on the masses, GPUs like RTX 3060, with good performance.
It's like the tessellation effect. In the beginning, it was super heavy, restricted to powerful GPUs. Years later, any iGPU runs this.

This is a thread about upcoming GPUs, ray tracing, and RDNA4. The implication is that we’re talking about AAA games. No one cares that indie platformer #34823 doesn’t have ray tracing. It’s a standard in AAA games and these are the ones leading the industry. I can’t believe we have to specify this.

 

[Sanepar]

Same perf as 4070 ti and not 4070 super.

 

[SolidQ]

7900XT and XTX first results was 10-13% lower, and 3d mark is irrelevant bench

 

[Big Baller]

 

[mckmas8808]

Performance is ok with the right price. AMD were pricing their GPUs too high at launch of RDNA3.

So what's the right price for this, in your eyes?

 

[twilo99]

Let’s “wait and see” but those 6950xt deals from last year a starting to look even better.

I’m still really curious about the performance per watt here … I suspect that it might end up being a solid improvement over RDNA3.

 

[Wolzard]

This is a thread about upcoming GPUs, ray tracing, and RDNA4. The implication is that we’re talking about AAA games. No one cares that indie platformer #34823 doesn’t have ray tracing. It’s a standard in AAA games and these are the ones leading the industry. I can’t believe we have to specify this.

You have an incredible ability to read one thing and understand another. I don't know how a topic about standardization became about indies, AAA.
And there is still the understanding that there is only AAA and only they are worth it.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It might seem lackluster now, but once we get the Fine Wine drivers and games are optimized for AMD because of consoles, then we will really see it shine.

 

[Gaiff]

You have an incredible ability to read one thing and understand another. I don't know how a topic about standardization became about indies, AAA.

If we talk about freakin’ next-gen GPUs, no one gives a shit about indie games that run on Kepler or GCN 1.0 GPUs.

I like how you try to downplay ray tracing by bringing up "industry standards" as if those low-budget games had any relevance when talking about pushing graphics and moving the industry forward.

And there is still the understanding that there is only AAA and only they are worth it.

AAA games are the only ones worth getting new graphics cards for, duh. It doesn’t mean the other games aren’t good or don’t matter. They’re simply immaterial in a discussion about RDNA4 and ray tracing.

How disingenuous of you to pretend that you don’t understand.

 

[BattleScar]

Yes

Nvidia would have done WAY better for the same price. They are generations ahead of AMD gpus

No the fuck they wouldn't. Not at all for the same price.
There is a reason literally nobody other than Nintendo (who buy 5 year old off-the-shelf chips on fire sale) work with Nvidia for custom hardware. They are notoriously horrible to work with.

 

[SolidQ]

we get the Fine Wine drivers and games are optimized for AMD because of consoles

we don't have any gaming perf, except from chipell(they claiming 4080 level). 2 Weeks only left for real perf

 

[JimboJones]

Would be great at around $450. We also need to know what the RT performance is like and if it comes with FSR4 and AI-upscaling. If it's good in those, then it will be a fantastic value product.

I really hope the support for this in games isn't reset to 0 but I'm guessing it will be.

 

[SweetTooth]

Performance is ok with the right price. AMD were pricing their GPUs too high at launch of RDNA3.

Yeah, will add my voice to mckmas8808 .. What do you think the right price for it?

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

I notice that people in this post have a lot of difficulty understanding what something standardized is. To be standardized, it needs to be something common to everyone.
In other words, for RT to be an industry standard effect, I need to be able to run it on the masses, GPUs like RTX 3060, with good performance.
It's like the tessellation effect. In the beginning, it was super heavy, restricted to powerful GPUs. Years later, any iGPU runs this.

My screenshots proved that even a $1000 GPU can run PT well, so now you try to bring up the RTX3060 into discussion to prove your point.
The RTX3060 is too slow for PT, however even this card can run standard RT well in some games, at lest at 1080p.

82fps in Spider Man remastered

132fps in doom eternal

Far Cry 6 - 82fps

Metro exodus 73fps

RE4 remake 60fps

Watch Dogs Legion 51fps

A Plague Tale Requiem 48fps

F1 24 47fps

Even the RTX3060 can run RT quite well in few games and with DLSSQuality and with reduced RT quality on top of that even more demanding games would run at 60fps.

For example "control", at native 1080p the RTX3060 has 42fps, but with DLSSQuality even this card can max out this game at 72fps.

If I had the RTX3060 I wouldnt be able to max out RT games so easily, but it seems that with the right settings even this value oriented card can run some RT games with good results. Keep in mind upcoming RDNA4 GPUs should offer way better RT performance compared to the RTX3060, so more and more gamers will be able to max out RT games and see benefits of this technology.

 

[Bojji]

So what's the right price for this, in your eyes?

4070S is like 600$? This one has similar power in standard/hybrid RT and raster, we don't know about path tracing performance (so far AMD sucks in it). It also has fsr4 support - but we don't know the quality and if it will work on older and GPUs (rdna3, if it works they are more competitive)? It also starts with zero support compared to hundreds of games with Dlss.
GPU will also have more vram than 4070S.

It should be considerably cheaper, less than 500$? We also don't know what Nvidia is planning with 5xxx series pricing in this performance tier.

 

[Zathalus]

Lumen is a form of ray tracing. So if the largest third party engine has it as the regular lighting model I’d consider that a standard feature.

 

[SolidQ]

if it will work on older and GPUs

RDNA2 no, they have FSR 2/3

STX Halo timespy

 

[FireFly]

You have an incredible ability to read one thing and understand another. I don't know how a topic about standardization became about indies, AAA.
And there is still the understanding that there is only AAA and only they are worth it.

This topic is not about standardization. It is about the RDNA 4 GPUs and how capable they are for ray tracing in comparison with the competition. Ray tracing does not need to become an industry standard to be of benefit to users on a 9070 XT.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

It might seem lackluster now, but once we get the Fine Wine drivers and games are optimized for AMD because of consoles, then we will really see it shine.

Ive always believed in this too but lately Im not buying it as much. Yes, AMD cards tend to have better legs but usually by the time they've caught up to the next tier's performance, its years already.
And in those years, you could've spent a bit more on NV's side to enjoy that perf uplift for x years.

I will admit, with current mid range cards, its very fucked up. It wasn't that bad in previous gens.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT GPU Benchmarked In Time Spy, Delivers Better Performance Than RX 7900 GRE

The Time Spy test revealed that the AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT scored 22,894 points in graphics and was on par with the RX 7900 GRE.

wccftech.com

This thing can't launch at above $500 or it's DOA

I'm impressed that AMD has managed to run in place for 3 generations now regarding performance while changing the physical GPU design between monolithic and chiplets and monolithic again, an impressive example of doing a lot and accomplishing very little

The entire >$500 market will belong to Nvidia uncontested for yet another generation

 

[SweetTooth]

Cmon AMD stop being complacent, you already angried Lord Cerny enough to pickup your slack and create ML and RT solutions for Sony and you.

 

[Wolzard]

If we talk about freakin’ next-gen GPUs, no one gives a shit about indie games that run on Kepler or GCN 1.0 GPUs.

I like how you try to downplay ray tracing by bringing up "industry standards" as if those low-budget games had any relevance when talking about pushing graphics and moving the industry forward.

AAA games are the only ones worth getting new graphics cards for, duh. It doesn’t mean the other games aren’t good or don’t matter. They’re simply immaterial in a discussion about RDNA4 and ray tracing.

How disingenuous of you to pretend that you don’t understand.

And who said anything about running on old GPUs? Again, you read one thing and understand another. I also didn't talk about indie or low-budget games. However, the gaming industry does not only live from AAA.
Robocop Rogue City, A Plague Tale Requiem, Stalker 2, Immortals of Aveum, Metro Exodus, etc., aren't AAA, but they are games that have advanced graphics and advance the industry.
However, as I said, standard means something frequent, which is something common found in most cases. And this has not yet happened with ray tracing, but it is in the process of doing so.

My screenshots proved that even a $1000 GPU can run PT well, so now you try to bring up the RTX3060 into discussion to prove your point.
The RTX3060 is too slow for PT, however even this card can run standard RT well in some games, at lest at 1080p.

82fps in Spider Man remastered

132fps in doom eternal

Far Cry 6 - 82fps

Metro exodus 73fps

RE4 remake 60fps

Watch Dogs Legion 51fps

A Plague Tale Requiem 48fps

F1 24 47fps

Even the RTX3060 can run RT quite well in few games and with DLSSQuality and with reduced RT quality on top of that even more demanding games would run at 60fps.

For example "control", at native 1080p the RTX3060 has 42fps, but with DLSSQuality even this card can max out this game at 72fps.

If I had the RTX3060 I wouldnt be able to max out RT games so easily, but it seems that with the right settings even this value oriented card can run some RT games with good results. Keep in mind upcoming RDNA4 GPUs should offer way better RT performance compared to the RTX3060, so more and more gamers will be able to max out RT games and see benefits of this technology.

Most of these games are not demanding on RT, even AMD GPUs can run them or even consoles. But they still need to rely on some type of upscaling.
I insist again that we are in a transitional period between raster and ray tracing, but RT is not yet the standard rendering format, because the hardware is not yet 100% capable.

This topic is not about standardization. It is about the RDNA 4 GPUs and how capable they are for ray tracing in comparison with the competition. Ray tracing does not need to become an industry standard to be of benefit to users on a 9070 XT.

The problem is that some users insist that ray tracing is an industry standard, which is untrue.
Yes, the fact that AMD is finally paying attention to this is positive, a path towards making this more common.

 

[Wolzard]

Strix Halo 8060

 

[FalconPunch]

An apu that's faster than a 4060? That's wild. People are gonna cop that like no tomorrow. Especially great for sff/nuc style machines and would be a potentially great emulator box for like a tv.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Most of these games are not demanding on RT, even AMD GPUs can run them or even consoles. But they still need to rely on some type of upscaling.
I insist again that we are in a transitional period between raster and ray tracing, but RT is not yet the standard rendering format, because the hardware is not yet 100% capable.

Yes, most games make limited use of RT, but you don't need PT to fix the biggest problems with raster lighting, mainly ugly and distracting screen space reflections that fade as you move the camera up and down, cascading shadows that draw literaly in front of the character, or the lack of indirect shadows in sandbox games (without indirect shadows lighting will always look flat). I do not need to use image reconstruction in standard RT games on my PC, at least at 1440p, but I see no reason why I shouldnt when DLSS looks so good.

Raster

RT low

Path Tracing

Raster

RT low settings

Path Tracing

And by the way. DLSS inst exactly upscaling. Upscaling simply resizes the image to a higher resolution, but cannot add new details/restore missing detail, whereas DLSS does exactly that based on temporal data. The upscaled image can never match the native resolution, wile the image reconstruction such as DLSS can match and even surpass it, because Temporal data (data from previous frames) provides more detail than single frame rendered at native resolution. DLSS (especially 3.8.2) can merge previous frames very well, and having used DLSS in countless games, I have to say that native resolution is currently the biggest waste of GPU resources. I can always get better image quality with DLSS + DLDSR combo and still get few fps more compared to the native TAA. Even the new PSSR in PS5Pro, if implemented well, can provide better image quality compared to the native TAA (e.g. 'stellar blade').

 

[hinch7]

An apu that's faster than a 4060? That's wild. People are gonna cop that like no tomorrow. Especially great for sff/nuc style machines and would be a potentially great emulator box for like a tv.

Totally want one of these. Would be amazing to use as a spare NUC PC; for emulation and for travelling/LAN parties.

 

[Crayon]

A cool thing about a big apu is that you bring your own ram.

 

[kevboard]

Yes, most games make limited use of RT, but you don't need PT to fix the biggest problems with raster lighting, mainly ugly and distracting screen space reflections that fade as you move the camera up and down

this right there. sadly some games still overlay SSR on top of RT reflections, so you still get the artifacts

in UE5 games that's a relatively easy fix thankfully, just add r.lumen.reflections.screentraces=0 to the config file, and all SSR will be removed and only RT reflections are used.